Winchester Science Centre asks DD if she is non-binary

Ingenieur · 2023-02-18T10:06:09+00:00

I took my two DDs to Winchester Science Centre yesterday. One of the exhibitions was a psychology research quiz involving empathy expressed towards real pets vs robot pets and was run alongside the University of Portsmouth. During the quiz, one of the researchers asked my (young) DD if she is non-binary. Other kids were there, ranging in age from 3 to 12 or so, so all basically primary school age. I moved the conversation quickly on at the time, but it really left me shocked as it seemed like a total non-sequitur. It really isn't the place to be discussing gender ideology and undermines the credibility of the Centre to offer scientific education to young kids. It's disappointing to see the capture of so many institutions and the fact that we can't escape the indoctrination in completely unrelated spaces you'd expect to be safe from unscientific ideas. Sorry if it's been a bit of a rant!

Original poster

Ingenieur · 07/09/2024 10:48

Hi @Limeric, I didn't make a complaint in the end, life just got in the way.

The interaction my daughter and I had was with a university student undertaking research on a psychology degree, it wasn't a member of WSC staff. The actual staff were all lovely.

OP posts:

Limeric · 07/09/2024 10:48

334bu · 07/09/2024 10:29

that quite a few of the people working there are on the spectrum. They are all really lovely but some of them do occasionally ask inappropriate questions and it's really not meant to be rude.

Even if they are on the spectrum any employee interacting with children, should be well trained and therefore should know not to ask such questions.

I agree they should and hope OP did make a complaint, but just saying that I think it wasn't meant to offend.

334bu · 07/09/2024 10:29

that quite a few of the people working there are on the spectrum. They are all really lovely but some of them do occasionally ask inappropriate questions and it's really not meant to be rude.

Even if they are on the spectrum any employee interacting with children, should be well trained and therefore should know not to ask such questions.

Limeric · 07/09/2024 10:21

OP- I know this is post from a year ago. Not sure if you've made a complaint or not, but I would say, as Science Centre lover (we go there with DD, from London, 5 times a year), that quite a few of the people working there are on the spectrum. They are all really lovely but some of them do occasionally ask inappropriate questions and it's really not meant to be rude. Please don't take it personally. We love that place and everyone is ever so helpful and lovely and the people running the Science Live and the Planetarium in particular are very smart.

ArabeIIaScott · 28/08/2023 15:05

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 28/08/2023 11:52

If it was part of the research then all the questions asked should have gone through a prior ethical approval process. Asking children that kind of question and using the answers for research would count as sensitive personal information about a child and would have to be justified.

And if it wasn't part of the research then yes, the organisers need to tell the students that it's rude and intrusive to ask adults what sex or gender they are and equally rude to ask a young child.

You can complain either way.

Absolutely this.

It's 'special category' data and there are very strict rules about its collection:

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/lawful-basis/a-guide-to-lawful-basis/lawful-basis-for-processing/special-category-data/

'The UK GDPR defines special category data as:

personal data revealing racial or ethnic origin;
personal data revealing political opinions;
personal data revealing religious or philosophical beliefs;
personal data revealing trade union membership;
genetic data;
biometric data (where used for identification purposes);
data concerning health;
data concerning a person’s sex life; and
data concerning a person’s sexual orientation.

'

Special category data

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/lawful-basis/a-guide-to-lawful-basis/lawful-basis-for-processing/special-category-data

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 28/08/2023 11:52

If it was part of the research then all the questions asked should have gone through a prior ethical approval process. Asking children that kind of question and using the answers for research would count as sensitive personal information about a child and would have to be justified.

And if it wasn't part of the research then yes, the organisers need to tell the students that it's rude and intrusive to ask adults what sex or gender they are and equally rude to ask a young child.

You can complain either way.

quantumbutterfly · 28/08/2023 11:40

Love the idea of asking if it's a scientific term.
Even the royal society of chemistry offered gender tick boxes in it's membership forms when I last looked. Unscientific bollocks, or pseudo-bollocks if you prefer.

Heliotroper · 28/08/2023 11:27

Moopsi · 18/02/2023 10:13

Another option in the future is to ask them innocently what non-binary means and then when answers get more and more tautological and illogical you have non-agressively made your point and perhaps made the other person actually apply some critical thinking.

In this context "sorry, not familiar, is that a scientific term?"
would be a good response.

OnionBhajis · 28/08/2023 11:19

It's dangerous as it's normalising this both as an adoption and part of everyday experience....

Heliotroper · 28/08/2023 11:15

My response would be

"Non binary? Sorry we are non bullshit"

booksandbeans · 28/08/2023 10:24

I just have a standard response - 'She's a child, not a binary And why exactly do you need to know?'

MerryMarigold · 24/02/2023 18:31

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 18/02/2023 16:39

If they were students, they will have no idea how to speak to young children, and will speak to them as they would anyone else they meet.

Eh? Student's aren't grown in petri dishes. They're people, who ought therefore to have a basic grasp of how to appropriately engage with other humans. They may not have a lot of experience of judging exact ages or knowing how to actually engage young children without being patronising, but the general principles - don't discuss sex, don't ask them what car they drive, avoid extreme gore - should be familiar to them.

I don't think they were discussing sex! I'm sure they thought it was an entirely appropriate question for a child, evidenced by the fact they asked it!

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 18/02/2023 16:40

Please ignore the rogue apostrophe. My autocorrect will be sent for re-eduction. Again.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 18/02/2023 16:39

If they were students, they will have no idea how to speak to young children, and will speak to them as they would anyone else they meet.

Eh? Student's aren't grown in petri dishes. They're people, who ought therefore to have a basic grasp of how to appropriately engage with other humans. They may not have a lot of experience of judging exact ages or knowing how to actually engage young children without being patronising, but the general principles - don't discuss sex, don't ask them what car they drive, avoid extreme gore - should be familiar to them.

IWilloBeACervix · 18/02/2023 12:10

There is a real drive to indoctrinate children with this.

maybe a decent response to that would be, ‘in all my life, I’ve never met a binary person. Have you?’

TheBiologyStupid · 18/02/2023 12:09

MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/02/2023 10:22

I'd write and complain. If the exhibition was good then say so but point out that working with children is not an opportunity for university graduates to use it as an opportunity to ask children age inappropriate questions?
I expect they were unthinkingly trying to engage with DD but they need to learn that suggesting to young children they might not have a biological sex is plain wrong - and gaslighting.

Absolutely this!

Oblomov23 · 18/02/2023 12:08

I would complain. It's everywhere these days, this 'woke' idea that inappropriate questions are ok.

Original poster

Ingenieur · 18/02/2023 11:48

Peekingovertheparapet · 18/02/2023 10:41

I have, in a previous life, worked quite closely with the WSC. There are some incredibly woke people there, this does not surprise me.

Hmm, that's disappointing but I suppose unsurprising these days

OP posts:

Thelnebriati · 18/02/2023 10:55

Progressives are harassing women & girls who have short hair or wear trousers, publicly describing them as un-feminine enough to be considered female; while at the same time claiming its feminists who harass non gender conforming people.
The hypocrisy is breath taking.

Frankldearest · 18/02/2023 10:52

Maybe a straightforward - "Non binary doesn't actually exist. She's a girl."

SignOnTheWindow · 18/02/2023 10:42

"Why would you assume that?"

Peekingovertheparapet · 18/02/2023 10:41

I have, in a previous life, worked quite closely with the WSC. There are some incredibly woke people there, this does not surprise me.

Original poster

Ingenieur · 18/02/2023 10:38

MerryMarigold · 18/02/2023 10:27

I think if they were students, they will have no idea how to speak to young children, and will speak to them as they would anyone else they meet. Was it part of the research or chit chat? If it was an actual research question, then I would definitely bring it up with the centre quite forcefully. The questions should have been approved by someone with more sense/ training in dealing with children. If it was misplaced small talk, I would still alert the centre and suggest that may be there is a training session on how to speak to children and what is appropriate/ not.

Yeah, I can understand a student's lack of experience and self awareness could have been part of it, but yes it was a research question on the question script.

OP posts:

MerryMarigold · 18/02/2023 10:27

I think if they were students, they will have no idea how to speak to young children, and will speak to them as they would anyone else they meet. Was it part of the research or chit chat? If it was an actual research question, then I would definitely bring it up with the centre quite forcefully. The questions should have been approved by someone with more sense/ training in dealing with children. If it was misplaced small talk, I would still alert the centre and suggest that may be there is a training session on how to speak to children and what is appropriate/ not.

Original poster

Ingenieur · 18/02/2023 10:23

Moopsi · 18/02/2023 10:10

Yes I understand that it can be difficult but it would be really valuable for your DC to hear you speak up in public to challenge these regressive stereotypes.

Perhaps you could write a complaint to the centre and set out your thoughts?

I'll definitely consider writing a complaint, perhaps the Centre aren't aware themselves what questions the researchers are asking (even though they should be!)

OP posts: