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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans woman competes in cricket matches against girls as young as 12

26 replies

zanahoria · 17/02/2023 19:57

www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2023/02/17/parents-demands-answers-ecb-trans-woman-competing-against-girls/

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BrightDog · 03/07/2024 15:57

Safeguarding is of course incredibly important here and I have direct experience of sharing a female changing area with a biological male cricketer who identifies as a trans-woman.

NOBODY discusses this openly at the club. In fact you often don't know whether you are playing with or against a man. It is not acceptable to ask let alone object, for fear of being labelled a bigot and because the guidelines from ECB make it acceptable to play in the category in which you identify and 'live' (whatever that means). I'm absoutely not saying she means to cause harm or discomfort but she is causing the latter and because no-one is discussing it she may be under the impression that everyone is ok with it. I'm not. I can't speak for others.

THE ECB is WAY behind the curve on this perhaps because many adult women play on men's teams (either because they're exceptionally good or because they are making up numbers) which on the face of it justifies the argument that there is little physiological benefit to men over women in cricket.

Nonsense of course, by every respected science-based study there are significant physical advantages to men who have gone through puberty (height, limb length, hand span, explosive power, grip strength, speed, lung capacity etc), nevertheless the rule allows trans-women to compete not only in the Women's category, but also in the Open/Mixed category (most clubs have one or more of these), yet some insist on playing in the Women's, for obvious reasons. Conversely, a trans-man, who may only play in the Open and Men's categories, will have been through female puberty and will bring their physiological disadvantage into the male game.

We're putting the needs of a trans-woman to be accepted or affirmed over the needs of women and girls to have protected female-only spaces and to compete on a level playing field - Bonkers.

Mostly my objection is that what teeny tiny bit of the sports pie women have is now being further diminished by allowing biological men to usurp women and girls on teams, in competition and in remuneration. Must we wait until womens' elite sports teams and medal tables are dominated by men (you may not necessarily know you are watching male athletes compete as female) or some poor girl or woman gets seriously injured, before we push back?

I suspect that it will take Dads seeing their daughters lose out or hearing that they are sharing changing rooms with adult males before this blows wide open and we can have an honest discussion about it. By then sadly, many young girls may have been put off playing cricket altogether.

:

MarieDeGournay · 03/07/2024 15:23

When Alice Capsey was selected to play top-level cricket at the age of 16 [and hit a four off her very first ball at Lords, what a dream start], they had to ask her parents' permission first.

I remember hearing something about her mother having to be on any social media/chat groups as a safeguarding measure for her daughter, and the warning of 'Capsey's Mum!' being issued by the other players if the conversation was straying...

In other words, a high level of safeguarding for a 16 year old young women playing with adult women.

But a 12 year old playing with a man - no problem!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/07/2024 15:15

That's awful @YouJustDoYou Flowers

YouJustDoYou · 03/07/2024 14:40

MsSupineLickspittle · 17/02/2023 20:23

There is also deep unease about the situation of a biological male identifying as female sharing toilet facilities at cricket clubhouses with teenage girls. “If I have a 13-year-old girl who needs to change because she has just started her period, she could well be sharing a confined space with a man who, under ECB policy, has decided they are now female,” a source said. “I have real concerns about that.”

I don't understand how any adult is actually playing with children - the article talks about under 13 leagues. I wouldn't want an adult male playing - or changing - with 12 year old boys either.

Because he's AGP. They get off on this. As a parent there's no way in fresh hell I'd let my daughter a) change with him, and b) play against him. I've been cracked in the head with a cricket ball hit by a man, I was concussed and vomiting in hospital with a fractured skull. Even now I flinch whenever someone hits a ball.

BrightDog · 03/07/2024 14:38

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mrshoho · 18/02/2023 20:06

ECB should hurry up with their review. Is it correct that testosterone levels are only tested if playing for the national team? Idiots!

zanahoria · 18/02/2023 19:42

Unless somebody is a brilliant batter or bowler, the vast majority of time will be spent folding. Teams often need to make up numbers and a twelve year old could nip around the field quicker than lot of adults.

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Herroyal · 18/02/2023 14:53

The kids aren’t as strong as the adults obvs, but they can often out run them or have way better stamina… specially when it’s the 4rd or 4th team.

Herroyal · 18/02/2023 14:52

My 12 year old son can play on the lower men’s teams now - but it’s under the condition that the parent is there or the kids coach is there. The children don’t change or hang out with the men in anyway. They play and then they usually go home or have a coke in the clubhouse but aren’t left alone with the adult team, who generally have beers etc after matches

zanahoria · 18/02/2023 10:16

Cricket is getting more popular among girls but it is still a minority sport thus hard to get teams together for all age groups. I can see why they want to accelerate some kids development by putting them in adult women's teams.

There seems to be a culture of flexibility throughout the game as at amateur level it is often hard to get teams together. My nephew plays for a village team, it is a men's team but sometimes women play - usually they are very good players - more skilled than the men on the team albeit less strong - who just want the practice and the men respect them as players who often play at a far higher level in women's teams.

It seems that transwomen are taking advantage of this culture. In contrast to the women who take a bit of risk playing with men, they are putting others at risk.

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FrancescaContini · 17/02/2023 21:49

Simply outrageous. When is this going to stop?

WickedSerious · 17/02/2023 21:48

Oblomov23 · 17/02/2023 21:30

So wrong. So sad.

So fucking grim.

WarningToTheCurious · 17/02/2023 21:39

the transgender player’s club objected that they would have to ask the cricketer to “hold back”.

Simple solution.

Transgender player plays against players in their own sex class, no “holding back” required (unless it’s not normal for adult males to play full hard ball cricket against pre teen boys).

Oblomov23 · 17/02/2023 21:30

So wrong. So sad.

NotBadConsidering · 17/02/2023 21:21

Rainbowshit · 17/02/2023 20:56

I've played juniors in my adult team many times. PITA though for things like away games and safeguarding.

You could just hand wave away all those silly safeguarding rule couldn’t you? They’re sooo boooring and unnecessary 😴

<sarcasm>

Rainbowshit · 17/02/2023 20:56

I've played juniors in my adult team many times. PITA though for things like away games and safeguarding.

zanahoria · 17/02/2023 20:55

It will be girls playing in adult women's teams and at least one of them has a transwomen player.

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Rainbowshit · 17/02/2023 20:55

My reading of it was that talented 12 year olds can play up onto an adult team rather than the male playing in a children's team.

LakeTiticaca · 17/02/2023 20:49

How on earth is an adult male allowed to play in a children's team? Who actually sanctioned this?

Fenlandia · 17/02/2023 20:47

Just as women's cricket is exploding in popularity...

zanahoria · 17/02/2023 20:41

" I wouldn't want an adult male playing - or changing - with 12 year old boys either"

The Arsenal men's team played a fifteen year old and he was not even allowed to change with the other players.

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zanahoria · 17/02/2023 20:39

I think it is common for talented young girls to play in adult games.

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/02/2023 20:31

After the shambles of Maxine Blyth - performing as a mediocre male player in the same season as winning the women's player of the year - cricket has had plenty of time to see the evident unfairness. Now enabling what sounds like a middle aged male transitioner to intimidate 12 year old girls is completely unacceptable.

MsSupineLickspittle · 17/02/2023 20:23

There is also deep unease about the situation of a biological male identifying as female sharing toilet facilities at cricket clubhouses with teenage girls. “If I have a 13-year-old girl who needs to change because she has just started her period, she could well be sharing a confined space with a man who, under ECB policy, has decided they are now female,” a source said. “I have real concerns about that.”

I don't understand how any adult is actually playing with children - the article talks about under 13 leagues. I wouldn't want an adult male playing - or changing - with 12 year old boys either.

Rainbowshit · 17/02/2023 20:22

FFS. Someone is going to get seriously hurt by this absolute nonsense.