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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Hannah Barnes book

286 replies

RoyalCorgi · 14/02/2023 12:37

There have been discussions about the book on different threads relating to various interviews with Barnes or pieces about the book. Thought it would be useful to bring everything on to one thread.

This review by Sarah Ditum is excellent and very moving:

unherd.com/2023/02/the-tragedy-of-becoming-a-woman/

Another good one from Suzanne Moore:

suzannemoore.substack.com/p/a-review-of-time-to-think-the-book

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
Birdsweepsin · 23/02/2023 22:07

Mine came today. Just a couple of chapters in and ... it's brilliant. Fair and even handed, forensic and devastating. I can't put it down.

WarriorN · 23/02/2023 17:03

💚🤍💜

Still waiting here....

theveg · 23/02/2023 13:52

Mine has arrived

ResisterRex · 23/02/2023 12:18

Mine too. And it was reviewed in Private Eye but you'll have to buy it to read it! One thing that stuck out was (I paraphrase)

Even if you've been keeping track, this book will still hit you hard.

Which was something I wondered, as sometimes you forget parts of what's gone on, then the part you forget will pop up and you can't believe you forgot it, it was so shocking.

TheBiologyStupid · 23/02/2023 12:17

Just bought the Kindle edition (easier to mark up and copy-and-paste from).

WarriorN · 23/02/2023 12:09

My copy is apparently on its way

EpicChaos · 20/02/2023 17:29

@endofthelinefinally cheers! I'll take a look at his channel.

Genesis1v27 · 20/02/2023 12:14

Psychotherapist Stella O'Malley reviewed the book for The Sunday Independent in Ireland:

A modern medical scandal: What really went wrong at the UK’s controversial Tavistock gender clinic?

She also published the full piece on her Substack newsletter.

endofthelinefinally · 20/02/2023 11:53

@EpicChaos
He is Barry Wall on you tube as The Court of the EDI Jester.

WarriorNun · 20/02/2023 10:26

A reminder of the sos campaign to get a copy to every msp:

SOS Scotland great campaign www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4742682-sos-scotland-great-campaign

WarriorNun · 20/02/2023 10:15

" I think puberty is much more difficult now.

It's social media that's the issue

WarriorNun · 20/02/2023 10:14

ArabellaScott · 19/02/2023 22:01

Just dropping current Amazon rank here:

Best Sellers Rank: 48 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)

1 in Family & Social Groups

1 in Anthropology & Sociology Biographies

10 in Gender Studies (Books)

Brilliant.

EpicChaos · 19/02/2023 22:49

@endofthelinefinally
Thank you for posting the link to that video, sorry, i don't know who the person in it is but i'd be interested to hear/read more of what they had to say.
Iirc, the original Mengele never had to answer for his crimes but it's incumbent on all of us, to make sure, that not one of those responsible for this crime goes unpunished and every last one of those latter day Mengele's taking an active part in pushing the ideology will feel the wrath of society for their actions, be they doctors, surgeons, nurses, teachers, workers from companies such as celebrate and educate or whatever they are called, etc., etc., etc. i don't care who they are, or what they do, there must be no hiding place for them!

@SirSamVimesCityWatch
" in Germany the pharmaceutical companies didn't even try to establish a market for the drugs because the culture was accepting of pain being a normal part of, for eg, post-op recovery, whereas in the US it was not. "

My understanding of the opioid addiction crisis was that it was due in the main to long term use for chronic pain and the dragon, ever being in need of being chased, rather than short term post-op care?
Following 2 surgeries in recent years, i can tell you, in all honesty, hand on heart, that i couldn't care less, or give a rats, what pain killers they packed me with to wake up with but i wouldn't entertain the thought of using opioids going forwards. I refused them outright - soluble paracetamol ftw! lol

The rest of your post i agree with.

@Needmoresleep
" I think puberty is much more difficult now. "

Puberty, or parenting?
I am unaware that the physical aspects of puberty have changed???

" A decade ago I allowed DD to have Fb, or bebo, when leaving primary school though insisted everything went through my email until she was 13. Eventually we sat down and discussed the endless stream of posts from "cool girls" having fun hanging out in shopping malls etc.

Eventually? Why eventually? Why didn't you ( and by you, i mean parents as a peer group not you in particular, i'm not singling you out. ) do that to begin with, as a bare minimum.
Stable doors and bolted horses!
It seems to me, that too many parents abdicated their parenting responsibilities in favour of being besties and buying their childrens' love/friendship, in exchange for only giving 15 minutes ' quality time '.Have another participation medal Jemima!

The transing of kids, imo, is the middle class ( mostly ) equivalent of the sex grooming gangs in towns and cities up and down the country, where councils/police/social services, etc., all looked the other way. I'd be very interested to know, which towns and cities had grooming gangs and now have the same councils and councillors in particular, desperate to prostrate themselves at the altar of Stonewall by demanding boys/men have access to girls/womens toilets/changing facilities across schools and municipal facilities.
I'd be very interested in the facts about that and them, indeed!

ArabellaScott · 19/02/2023 22:01

Just dropping current Amazon rank here:

Best Sellers Rank: 48 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)

1 in Family & Social Groups

1 in Anthropology & Sociology Biographies

10 in Gender Studies (Books)

notsurewherenotsurewhy · 19/02/2023 21:46

Genuine plea (I've NC again recently so conscious my v limited posting history might look suspect), has anyone come across a halfway sensible rebuttal of the book yet? I'm sceptical that one can possibly be made, but I'd feel better informed if I were able to stress-test it a bit! Twitter frothing doesn't quite do the job.

StephanieSuperpowers · 19/02/2023 18:11

Wow. I mean, seriously unbalanced. Frightening, really. How can any adult listen to that nonsense?

StephanieSuperpowers · 19/02/2023 18:06

Thanks for the link!

IJustHadToLookHavingReadTheBook · 19/02/2023 17:22

I'm really looking forward to reading this as everything that I've read/listened on it has felt very even handed and interesting. Place marking.

StephanieSuperpowers · 19/02/2023 14:14

Can you post a link for those of us who haven't installed Twitter on their new phone to try to limit use of it, please?!

PriamFarrl · 19/02/2023 13:32

The review is on the guardian Twitter feed. The replies are people saying how dreadful they are and this will cause more people to be murdered.

Andante57 · 19/02/2023 12:19

How long can Guardian editorial staff, Senior Labour politicians, and NHS managers/EDI staff, keep the line that there is nothing amiss.

I’ve wondered that. If they ever do, will they admit “some mistakes have been made and the Guardian newspaper is constantly updating its editorial process” blah blah, or will they suddenly change their views - like Sweden went from driving on the left to driving in the right overnight?

Birdsweepsin · 19/02/2023 12:04

DworkinWasRight · 19/02/2023 08:51

The Rachel Cooke review is really powerful. How long can the Guardian bury its head in the sand?

I dont know if its just me but this bit reads very pointedly at Guardian colleagies:

Such a book cannot easily be dismissed. To do so, a person would not only have to be wilfully ignorant, they would also – to use the popular language of the day – need to be appallingly unkind.

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 19/02/2023 11:05

Going back a bit, but this:

No one tells them that pain and suffering are just a normal part of life and not always a problem to be solved.

I think is really important. Puberty is, for most people, a bit of pain and suffering but it's not actually traumatic. If it was, we wouldn't have managed to have a fully functioning society for millennia because the trauma that very single human experienced at puberty would have buggered up the whole shebang.

The idea that yes, there are times when life sucks but you keep plodding through and eventually come out the other side seems to have been lost.

It reminds me of the opioid scandal in the US - doctors were prescribing these insanely powerful painkillers because of the idea that being in pain cannot be tolerated, it must be made to go away instantly. I read a very interesting piece on the way that the opioid addiction has run rampant in the US in part because of this attitude, whereas in Germany the pharmaceutical companies didn't even try to establish a market for the drugs because the culture was accepting of pain being a normal part of, for eg, post-op recovery, whereas in the US it was not.

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