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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Kelly Holmes changes her mind on trans inclusion in women's sports?

110 replies

HootyMcboob76 · 18/01/2023 02:01

"Equally, the vast majority of sport is played on a local playing field where taking part and inclusion, as well as physical and mental health benefits are perhaps more important than winning.’"
www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/dame-kelly-holmes-admits-she-was-previously-ignorant-about-trans-athletes/ar-AA16qIej?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=669f524540e644eeb669ce51f43b9e00

I read this as her saying that women should just be grateful to be playing, never mind if a biological male beats them! In other words, be kind, shut up, and be prepared to lose out on a medal, as long as the special male athlete gets to participate.

She is now a proud member of the special community so apparently a gay woman cannot continue to fight for women's sports being for women?

Other gay female athletes (e.g. Martina Navratilova) have still been able to say that natal males should not be included in women's sports.

Does anyone read this article differently?

OP posts:
NotBadConsidering · 18/01/2023 06:52

Firstly the article is wrong, she didn’t come out as a lesbian, she came out as gay. It was notable at the time that the word lesbian wasn’t used, it seems like no one wants to publicly be a lesbian anymore.

Second, when she did come out as gay, there was criticism of her previous statements (note previous posters here in the thread) and awful abuse on the Stonewall Twitter announcement for her previously expressed views including being told she “can still eat a dick”.

Which makes it all the more disappointing that she’s caved to the demands of those who have abused her. The article in the OP reads like she’s switched to “be kind” mode. She also falsely claims trans athletes are being prevented from competing in elite sport which is a lie. They can compete just like anyone else - in their own sex category.

But most galling is her selling out the everyday girl, the woman woman with no name who misses out at grass roots level because the well-being of males at that level is now more important to those women and girls achieving the success they seek.

I supported her. After she was treated awfully when Rachel McKinnon/Veronica Ivy set the rabid TRAs on her and Holmes was publicly admonished by Specialized, I sent her a thank you email and donated to her foundation. She hasn’t learnt anything new. She can’t have been paying attention to what Martina or Sharron Davies has been saying, or Emma Hilton or Ross Tucker.

For reasons known only to her, she’s let her abusers win and thrown all common sense out of the window to “be kind” to a community that tells her to “eat a dick”. She’s going to learn that nothing she does will be good enough, and in the meantime she’s selling women and girls down the river.

PermanentTemporary · 18/01/2023 06:46

Totally. I definitely don't agree with her, being the kind of reckless extremist who thinks women's sport is for women.

Sad. Dame Kelly of all people.

ShamedBySiri · 18/01/2023 06:43

*If you really believe "taking part and inclusion, as well as physical and mental health benefits are perhaps more important than winning", then surely that taking part should be enough for the "trans" athletes - they just shouldn't win women's prizes?

Why are these arguments only used to deprive women of things?*

Exactly. Why aren't trans athletes just happy to carry on taking part in their own sex category then?

NecessaryScene · 18/01/2023 06:40

basically, if winning doesn't matter, then include male athletes as women.

In which case they shouldn't be keeping score, taking results or awarding any sort of prizes. In which case, as Headoutofplace, it's not a sport, is it?

As so often, the conflict arises from the attempt to have it both ways. And doing so in the way that maximally disfavours women.

In a lot of non-contact sports, there would indeed be no problem with men competing alongside women - the ONLY issue then is that they should be ranked separately.

If you really believe "taking part and inclusion, as well as physical and mental health benefits are perhaps more important than winning", then surely that taking part should be enough for the "trans" athletes - they just shouldn't win women's prizes?

Why are these arguments only used to deprive women of things?

PermanentTemporary · 18/01/2023 06:32

She's allowed to change her mind. It's somewhat limited as well - basically, if winning doesn't matter, then include male athletes as women. I think she's wrong here and quite fed up about it, but then i dont agree with having a separate trans games either in her first statement- trans people aren't a separate sex or a separate species.

tackling · 18/01/2023 06:30

Oh good. So women's sports are now reduced to: "Ladies, just be grateful you can still take part. Isn't it nice to be out in the fresh air together?"

Headoutofplace · 18/01/2023 06:25

If that's the case then why have any rules for sports unless it's a professional competition? Why not say there's no points, no fouls, no restrictions on what you can do in the sport (except for safety)? So she won't mind me joining my local basketball team and asking that they let me bring the basket right down, walk around with the ball etc? Participation is important but you're participating for the winning, otherwise it's a random activity not a sport!

DarkDayforMN · 18/01/2023 06:20

twitter.com/qitweets/status/1615026400259448833?

This looks to be the video - the quote is at the end. I guess she’s been subject to some intensive re-education sessions.

Very hard to respect this, nonetheless.

Oblomov22 · 18/01/2023 04:13

Well this is disappointing. Sad

DifficultBloodyWoman · 18/01/2023 04:12

I don’t read it differently but I also can’t find the original source material quoted (a story on her instagram).

It’s also being reported in Diva magazine.
Diva Magazine

Can anyone else find the instagram story they mention?

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