Kelly Holmes changes her mind on trans inclusion in women's sports?

Quite! Think they've worked out how disadvantaged a truly mixed team would be against a mixed team made up of male bodied athletes.

Interesting that USA rowing allows male rowers who identify as women to compete in all female races but don't allow them to compete as women in mixed sex events. Wonder why?🤔

Agree with above.
I participate in several mixed sex leagues because there's better competition there. But I also support the women only league (there is no equivalent men only league). Most of the women in that league don't participate in the mixed league because the gulf is quite large and the way the game is played is different. Some of them improve and then move onto the mixed leagues. We would lose those women if there wasn't a women only league.

Mixed sex sport is great and increasingly common. Also many sports at grassroots level have 'whoever turns up' scratch meets/matches. Fine stuff. If it's a sex-segregated event, go along with your sex class or find another event. I do question why Kelly Holmes would suddenly not be able to say that clearly. I'd agree with others on here that she actually was trying to say that, sort of.

There are of course people with VSDs for whom this is more complicated. That's where the case by case consideration should come in. Not for the 99.98% of us with a known sex from conception.

I should clarify - mixed sex football is a less physical game because the men hold back. They cannot play to the best of their ability as they would if it was single sex.

There are already mixed sex versions of many sports that would be suitable for transwomen. Single sex women's sport is not the place for them. When I play women's football I take pride in my strength and speed against fellow women. That doesn't exist against men. It's a totally different game. I actually wear more flimsy shinpads when playing mixed football as it's a far less physical game.

I've seen a single transwoman come on in an 11-a-side game and completely change the entire character of the game. It resulted in that team winning when they would not have otherwise done so. I guess we should just be glad the other 21 of us were able to provide a nice environment for that person to feel like a superior sportswoman.

And it’s also true that those who reach the elite level start off at grassroots level. A girl does well and wins at junior level, sees a future as an elite. A woman starts off at club level and gets noticed by a bigger club.

But a girl who loses to a male as a junior? Maybe she thinks “what’s the point?” A woman who never gets game time because a male is playing in her position instead? Never gets the chance to advance.

Kelly Holmes is entitled to change her mind, but when it changes from a position of reason, science, fact, fairness and safety to a position of propaganda, religious fervour and lies she should expect criticism.

When it is done, small scale local projects show that female only sports activities result in more females playing sport. Back when we cared about the mental and physical health of girls and women, women only activities were promoted and encouraged with positive results.. for women and girls. Now any mention of those words comes under scrutiny and funds and efforts are no longer diverted into these aims. The evidence will bear out in the years to come and see whether inclusion results in more people playing sport and how that impact is seen between the sexes but only if we capture sex and not gender data... and only if anyone can get funding to do the research.

Presumably now that her career is being a “sports personality” rather than a competing sportswoman, that has led to a corresponding change in her views. She is not the first woman in the world to think that other women shouldn’t reach the pinnacle she did herself (see Margaret Thatcher as an example).

*someone

I’m really sad about this. Every time sometime seemingly relatable and likeable in the public eye betrays women it’s awful.

Kelly Holmes you have thrown women under the bus. You have bowed down to male rule and betrayed women everywhere.

Coward bowing to the male mob

Very very disappointed

Oh. That explains it. For a lesbian, Riley sure hates other women.

Could always watch the video as an aide-memoire.

Looking at it charitably, concussion often goes along with amnesia about the event that caused it.

mrshoho · Today 10:36

I read that report from the ice hockey match and found the account from the injured player so odd. The video evidence clearly showed the opponent causing the clash. Why is she a) down playing the injury and b) blaming it on the way she fell? Anyone would think she'd been given an incentive of some kind??

I was beaten to it, but I suspect it was more stick than carrot: "Say what we tell you and you can carry on playing."

Plus, of course, there’s the getting undressed/showering together aspect to look forward to In the female changing room afterwards.

I no longer do competitive sport, but when i did i had one goal in mind: winning. As did all my competitors. Sure we looked at things like PB, but to misquote Kate Moss "Nothing tastes as good as winning feels"

There is a reason that so many footballers take off their runners up medal when they have left the podium. People who do sports want to win.
And sure, when kids are small, or you know they're not brilliant and so on, it is absolutely valid and good to assure participants that taking part is the main thing. It really isn't when you get to the top reaches.

Anyone who ever said to me "oh but it's the taking part that counts" when i hadn't won? i would have probably nutted them.

No. No...

People just want to go for a run or kick a ball with no spirit of competition, don't you all know! People just having a fun match with other people and ALL those involved agree. Because, when asked, they ALL agree! No pressure, no feeling like they need to agree. They just do. Honest!

You do usually see this argument from someone who does not play sport and it is sometimes from people who shunned sport because of their own issue with sport.

As has been mentioned many times now on social media, on MN, everywhere. If trans people don't want to win, just compete, why don't they still play with their sex?

Or, is somebody deviating from 'not one trans person denies their sex'! Did someone not get the memo?

The arguments fail the logic test when it is scrutinised.

If it is 'just' about participation, then develop mixed sex versions of contact sports where needed, and have mixed sex teams. Oh wait.... those are quite often available... why aren't those males in those mixed sex teams...

It's beyond disappointing. Is it more important that a man gets to play women's sports, at the risk of women's health? I guess it is. Poor little man can't be discriminated against, can he, even if all the women playing against him are at risk of serious injury. Thanks for reminding women that they're second-class citizens and their health and safety is secondary to men's feelings Kelly.

If winning isn't the point don't count goals or points, don't record times. You'd still be taking part in the activity.

Makes most team games pretty futile, mind.

As PPs have pointed out here, part of the fun in sports is competing. If you haven’t a chance of winning because you’re females and competing against a male, it’s pointless. You have no right to tell women they should give up that enjoyment.

Disappointing.

Kelly’s best 800m time of 1.56.21 ranks 2nd in the U.K. and joint 34th in the world - all-time list.

last year alone in just the U.K. that time was beaten by 352 men. The global figure would likely be several thousand.

Anyone that uses that weird phrase 'trans siblings' to means trans people in general, not one's own relatives, has probably been re-educated. No-one talks like that in the real world.

Anyone would think she'd been given an incentive of some kind??

The incentive would be that if she were to even hint at the suggestion there might be a problem with males competing against females she'd be spurned as a transphobic bigot by the people she's decided to associate with.