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Original poster

Please help! Gender not sex on a school 'protected characteristics' poster, just spoken to the Head!

994 replies

Vebrithien · 06/01/2023 09:55

Good morning,

I started this thread before Christmas

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4684558-today-i-found-my-bravery?page=1

The overview is that my DD's primary school is displaying posters by No Outsiders, which are supposed to show the 9 protected characteristics, but shows gender, not sex.

The (male) deputy head I mentioned it to, before Christmas, has not got back to me. The posters are still there.

I summoned up my courage this morning, and spoke to the Headteacher. She seemed surprised, as I said I'd already mentioned it to one deputy head, and that I'd picked up on it due to my school expecting Ofsted, and reissuing our equality training.

The Head said that it was surprising, as No Outsiders were an organisation whose specialism was equalities.

I replied that the EA2010 says sex, not gender. I also mentioned that there were some concerning resources produced by them, including an assembly where a dad wants to offer violence to children who do not accept his trans child. (I know no more than this)

The Head is going to talk to her other deputy head, whose responsibility this is, and to try to put us in contact.

Where do I do from here?

Can any one help me with evidence? What particularly is dodgy about No Outsiders?

Is there anything that states that schools mustn't misrepresent the EA?

Is there any DofE (or whatever it's called now) guidance for schools on the resources they used or how they represent the EA?

And, how should I go about finding out if the school uses other No Outsiders resources?

Please help, I want as much evidence as I can.

Still shaking with adrenaline from speaking to the Head!

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Thread gallery
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Original poster
Vebrithien · 24/01/2023 21:56

Thank you @ScrollingLeaves , you have been such a support.

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ScrollingLeaves · 24/01/2023 21:32

There is a very useful thread called Women’s Rights General Conversations - thread 2 where anything can be picked up on which you may well have seen.

I just outlined what happened at your DC’s school with this No Outsiders poster, in case anyone with skills for this sort of predicament, where a mixture of tact and assertiveness is needed, can come on to give you extra encouragement.

ScrollingLeaves · 24/01/2023 21:03

That seems excellent, though I also think the letter before was very good and to the point.

Does she really have to have the chance to come back with her ‘evidence’ that sex is gender? This is a primary school, the Equality Act clearly says ‘sex’. This poster looks exactly like the EA, with one exception which does not correspond. This is obviously confusing to children.

But I am getting angry and fed up about what is being done to children so may be tactless and impatient. I know others said avoid making her defensive.

Original poster
Vebrithien · 24/01/2023 20:43

Dear DepHead,

On the 11th of January, we discussed the No Outsiders posters displayed in school, which show 9 attributes or categories of people who are welcome in the school.

8 of these attributes/categories are the EA 2010 protected characteristics, with their exact wording in law.

The 9th category, which in law is "sex" has been replaced with "gender", which has no current definition in law.

You dismissed this, replying that gender and sex are conflated in law, and offered to send me your reading on this matter.

If you could kindly forward your reading on the matter, I should be most interested to read further.

Yours,
Veb

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Original poster
Vebrithien · 24/01/2023 20:42

Okay, here goes. This is my first draft. Trying to keep my power dry, and make a record of what was said.

Please let me know what you think.

I have other points I want to make, but as this will be the first written missive I send, I thought to start out as simply as I could...

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Original poster
Vebrithien · 24/01/2023 20:08

ScrollingLeaves · 24/01/2023 19:55

I used to vote Liberal Democrat unfailingly. It would be out of the question now. She probably doesn’t even understand the Equality Act that No Outsiders poster is referencing (whatever that DH says).

Don’t you think it is telling that Elsanore’s DH’s school agrees with you that the poster is wrong? They not only agreed but told him they’d had a number of complaints.

I hope you feel better soon. There is so much illness going round 💐 Reviving thoughts if this is probably the last thing you need

Oh yes, absolutely telling.

Thanks for the flowers. I've been ill now, with different bugs, since November. It's making me rather lacking in patience.

I so fucking fed up of this absolutely shit and bollocks. Women and girls matter

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Original poster
Vebrithien · 24/01/2023 20:05

This is the extract from the 2020 DofE RSE updated guidance, that I am thinking of quoting;

"When deciding on the external agencies and resources to use, you should make appropriate checks to ensure that the agencies’ approach to teaching relationships education, relationships and sex education and health education and the resources that they plan to use comply with:

your school’s policy
the Teaching Standards
the Equality Act 2010
the Human Rights Act 1998
the Education Act 1996"
(Source link to follow)

The poster by No Outsiders has replaced the protected characteristic of sex, with gender. The other 8 protected characteristics are names on the poster as they are in law.

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ScrollingLeaves · 24/01/2023 19:55

I used to vote Liberal Democrat unfailingly. It would be out of the question now. She probably doesn’t even understand the Equality Act that No Outsiders poster is referencing (whatever that DH says).

Don’t you think it is telling that Elsanore’s DH’s school agrees with you that the poster is wrong? They not only agreed but told him they’d had a number of complaints.

I hope you feel better soon. There is so much illness going round 💐 Reviving thoughts if this is probably the last thing you need

Original poster
Vebrithien · 24/01/2023 19:45

TBF, the quote is me paraphrasing, but it was completely dismissive. Given that she proposed the upskirting law, I would have though she'd have SOME awareness of the sick attention so many women suffer with, from MEN

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SinnerBoy · 24/01/2023 19:43

Fucking Hell. Just fucking Hell.

Original poster
Vebrithien · 24/01/2023 19:42

I know.

The sheer, undisguised hatred of women, shown by so many.

Those placards.

I wrote to my MP, using the Sex Matters template. Got a reply, but as she's a LD, it completely dismissed my concerns. "I don't have a problem with it, so why should you?"

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Boiledbeetle · 24/01/2023 19:26

SinnerBoy · 24/01/2023 19:13

Dear D Head,

We've been over this a number of times now, so you can't pretend that you are unaware that you are in breach of the law. I have instructed solicitors, with you as the named party.

Love,

Vebrithien.

Honestly@Vebrithien after the last few days of shit I'd go with Sinners option

No more shit.

No debate

😁

SinnerBoy · 24/01/2023 19:24

😁

Original poster
Vebrithien · 24/01/2023 19:24

Oh Dear God @SinnerBoy

I nearly swallowed my tonsillitis laughing at that.

As I currently have tonsillitis, this is both now mean feat AND and improvement on my current situation.

Thank you!

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SinnerBoy · 24/01/2023 19:13

Dear D Head,

We've been over this a number of times now, so you can't pretend that you are unaware that you are in breach of the law. I have instructed solicitors, with you as the named party.

Love,

Vebrithien.

Original poster
Vebrithien · 24/01/2023 19:09

Well, no update here really.

I've had no contact from the DepHead, the posters are still up.

I think I shall have to email her.

Not feeling great, but will try to work out what to say, and will post here before I email it, hopefully you'll be able to check it?

Thank you

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Elsanore · 24/01/2023 13:31

ScrollingLeaves · 23/01/2023 23:01

There is a thread tonight about schools where someone who saw your post I think spoke to their school about the same problem; but in their case the school responded positively.

That might have been me!
It was my DP's school, he's a primary teacher. I told him about this thread, he then also noticed the No Outsiders resources were wrongly saying gender not sex and raised it with the headteacher. She said she'd had other complaints too and at their school they are switching it back to "sex" on the list of protected characteristics. He explained why to his class- year 6.

ScrollingLeaves · 23/01/2023 23:23

This is the title of that thread. It is on the FWR board.

What are UK schools teaching?

ScrollingLeaves · 23/01/2023 23:01

There is a thread tonight about schools where someone who saw your post I think spoke to their school about the same problem; but in their case the school responded positively.

ScrollingLeaves · 12/01/2023 19:21

That seems a useful point to try to emphasise. It is very confusing that both balloons have the word ‘gender’ in them.

The everyone is welcome poster must make it clear that there is protection in law based on someone’s sex.

These explanatory notes from Government legislation regarding the Equality Act
show where it is lawful to discriminate against someone with in gender reassignment in favour of the protected characteristic ‘sex’. For example here:

Considerations of privacy or decency might require a public changing room or lavatory attendant to be of the same sex as those using the facilities

Unemployed Muslim women might not take advantage of the services of an outreach worker to help them find employment if they were provided by a man.

A counsellor working with victims of rape might have to be a woman and not a transsexual person, even if she has a Gender Recognition Certificate, in order to avoid causing them further distress.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/26/1#:~:text=The%20exception%20applies%20where%20being,sex%2C%20does%20not%20meet%20it

Original poster
Vebrithien · 12/01/2023 16:30

Sex Matters have replied (see below).
Nothing from the DepHead yet.

Dear Veb

Thank you for your email.

I would definitely take with you our guide to Sex and the Law Layout 1 (sex-matters.org)

As well as our schools guidance:
Sex-Matters-and-Transgender-Trend-schools-guidance.pdf

I think that the basic message has to be that it is unlawful to discriminate on the basis of SEX - this is what the law says and using a different word - which does have a different meaning - confuses this and misrepresents the law. So it's important to be absolutely clear about this. Gender or gender identity is not a protected characteristic (gender reassignment is).
You know this already though of course!

Given that there is so much discussion at the moment around sex and gender - being absolutely clear about it is really important - particularly for children, in order that they understand the world around them.

Please let us know how you get on.

Thank you for your support - it means a lot to us

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ScrollingLeaves · 12/01/2023 00:55

If you haven’t seen it this thread is very interesting. S many parents writing to say they are against gender ideology in school.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4717755-people-from-our-side-being-vocal-on-twitter-re-gender-identity-ideology-in-schools?latest=1

That deputy head should look.

ZestFest · 12/01/2023 00:39

Thank you OP for doing this. I'm in the South West too and am just waiting for something like this to happen at school.

Original poster
Vebrithien · 11/01/2023 19:26

Thank you to @rabbitwoman for emailing me the transgender guidance from her LEA.

Plenty of reading to be done.

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