Sex Equality and Equity Network - Gender crit network for civil servants.

We're right by you, Forth. I thought I was the only one in my directorate but no, there's another terf apparently

Another one who couldn't make it but glad it went ahead!

I had a hopeful look at a few calendars to see if anyone I knew had something blocked off for that time but sadly I think I'm on my own in my part of the CS universe...

I couldn't make it, but so pleased it went ahead. Well done everyone who was there.

I thought the speakers did very well, and I impressed they largely stayed calm at the end. Don't blame the gay male representative (who gave a really touching speech about the homophobia he'd faced) getting a frustrated with the angry chap who asked a question (i.e. ranted incoherently) at the end, he was being a knob in the comments too. Did anyone else spot the trolls by the inclusion of pronouns in their username?

It was so heartening to see upvotes on all the v. good refutations in the chat. Fun to think that was due loads of Mnetters being present, but I hope a lot of them were people who hadn't realised that their concerns were shared by others.

All the Civil Service networks are created to support inclusion and to promote equality.

The fact is that the first legally protected characteristic was sex (Sex Discrimination Act and Equal Pay Act in the mid 70's) - race was straight after in 1976.

Almost 50 years later there are civil service networks for lots of things which is absolutely great, but until now, nothing recognising sex (we have a Gender Equaliity Network where I work)

This is true, of course. A large part of the aim of the SEEN network is mutual support and employment protection, but naturally they can't say that out loud. Another aim is to do what the LGBT and women's networks used to do before they were captured; but they can't say that either.

I’m really disappointed that I missed it. It was in my diary but I just had too much else on. Hopefully the recording will be shared.

I attended the first half then had to drop off. I found the talk about data and Invisible Women interesting, but I couldn’t help thinking that the points made, while important, don’t obviously necessitate the creation of a D&I network

My absolute favourite line was "there's no sorting hats in the maternity ward"

Oh I'd forgotten that! Well done that man!

(It's quite alarming that we probably know each other at work on here!)

I joined it too.

I thought the speakers were good - and very brave to speak out in this forum. Such a shame that they have to be so brave in these circumstances.

Some of the comments in the chat were predictable and it was pretty heated at the end.

Some really positive comments in the chat too though 👍

My absolute favourite line was "there's no sorting hats in the maternity ward"

I was there today, agreed it was like trope bingo! The thing is that by this time we've heard everything and can predict all the old arguments so can easily be refuted in the chat box.

The tropes were trotted out, but they were very swiftly refuted. I did wonder how many mners were on 😁

I was encouraged by the chat content on the whole. As Imicola says, all the tropes were trotted out. Someone posted a link to Mermaids response to the Cass review 😱

Yes, I joined - I think there was a lot of support in the chat, and a smaller number of critical voices, including the two people who got to ask questions at the end. It was recorded. But unfortunately it did get rather heated, with one of the two asking questions at the end essentially equating SEEN to a hate group. Audience I think was about 150 people. I really liked the presentation based on Caroline Criado-Perez's book, as I think it is very difficult to argue against the importance of biological sex given the strong evidence based context, but I thought towards the end some of those critical of the SEEN viewpoint conveniently forgot these points. All the common arguments were wheeled out - most marginalised, intersex, erasing trans people...but I think all were quite firmly refuted in the chat box.

Lots of supportive comments initially but I had to leave just as the discussion was getting more heated. They said they were recording it so hopefully that will be available.

It clashed with another meeting for me, so I couldn’t. Would be very interested to know how it went.

Did anyone go to the SEEN talk today with the Civil Service Race Forum?

Got my first email from SEEN today so it is trickling down. Loads of articles on the website.
seen-network.uk

That's a lot of lurking, Papaya. Shame there's no way to disaggregate 'shy supporters' from 'monitors'.

Please would anyone who has not signed the Sex-Matters petition to Parliament to update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic ‘sex ‘ is biological, consider looking at the thread on mumsnet under petitions, the mumsnet petition site, or Sex-Matters and sign it if you agree.

The thread needs 100,000 signatures to get a debate in Parliament, but with about 18,300 to get before 20th April, is in danger of not doing so especially since N S’s resignation may encourage complacency.

There is no place for this especially since Lady Haldane’s ruling which has not been appealed, and meanwhile the Government response so far shows them dragging their feet and refusing to engage with the reality of complications between the Equality Act and Gender Recognition “changing a person’s sex”.

After the hoohah following the launch of the new network, my union (not FDA) emailed all its members to inform them they were fully inclusive and TWAW no debate. Made me realise if I ever got in bother at work because of my gender-critical beliefs, I couldn't expect union support. I won't continue with my membership for much longer, I can't bear paying for people to dismiss women's concerns out of hand. Like Nicola Sturgeon did...

If you’re a member of the FDA Union (the Civil Service Union for senior managers and professionals), they have launched a Trans Inclusion Consultation Survey. The link to the survey can be found in the FDA Update E-mail that came out yesterday.

Please do take the time to complete it as there are free text boxes to complete on your thoughts on workplace trans inclusions policies and what the FDA should consider. I’ve put a lot of detail in my responses (protected gender critical beliefs, the need to carry out a full equality impact assessment of any new policies, concerns about the influences of Stonewall et al, my views on pronouns in e-mail signatures and referenced SEEN as well).

We need to show the FDA just how many of us there are who have concerns about this, and while I’m still not convinced that they would have my back if I was discriminated against for my gender critical views, I welcome the fact that they are at least consulting on this policy rather than just imposing it.

Interesting stats for the Yammer page. Only 32 members but 408 individuals have at least read the threads in the last 28 days - 27 members and 381 non-members.

Total 7480 views of the page in 28 days.

I'm only in a couple of all company yammer groups but none have ratios like that.

Great to hear things are moving. I've not heard anything yet but I'm way down the pipeline not upper level civil servant.

I got the email too. Really hoping some 'jobs' in the network will become available, I respect the founders so much... also wonder if anonymity is going to be a requirement. I have such mixed feelings. I don't want to hurt any colleagues who have different views, especially the dysphoric, but at the same time, we aren't doing anything wrong.