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Sex Equality and Equity Network - Gender crit network for civil servants.

558 replies

fromorbit · 10/11/2022 10:06

Important new initiative for government workers. This is where a huge fight back is going to happen in behind the scenes government, in memos and meetings. If we don't win in the civil service, it doesn't matter how many demos or cases we win, how many twitter threads we write, sooner or later sex differences will be erased. If you work in government/public sector get involved asp.

seen-network.uk/

"We are happy to announce the launch of our new UK cross-government staff network, the Sex Equality and Equity Network.
SEEN is a staff network committed to promoting and supporting sex equality and equity between women and men in our workplaces, and helping all staff to thrive at work and fulfil their potential. The focus of our network is on challenging sex discrimination and upholding rights and protections that relate to sex (including the protections provided to those with the protected characteristics of sex, pregnancy and maternity and sexual orientation, as set out in the Equality Act 2010). We recognise that to achieve this and ensure sex equality and equity sometimes requires treating women and men differently, according to our different rights and needs.

We are also committed to the protected belief (covered by the protected characteristic of religion and belief in the Equality Act 2010) that biological sex is binary and immutable, that biological sex matters for both women and men in our everyday lives, including for our rights and needs in the workplace, and that biological sex must not be conflated with, or replaced by, the concepts of gender or gender identity."

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Tallisker · 13/11/2022 17:06

Green I didn't see anything about the launch of this network, just a thread started by a trans person about how anti trans it was. There were comments about how it was a bit dodgy that it was an external website. I'm delighted to hear its Cab Off approved, that makes defending it much easier.

TumbleFryer · 13/11/2022 16:48

GreenAllOver · 13/11/2022 13:43

I’m also Defra. I had a look on Yammer - massive thread (now deleted) under the announcement. 10 people ‘thumbs up’, 70 ‘sad face’. Another Yammer thread, started by someone who identifies as trans saying SEEN was about erasing trans people, with hundreds of supportive comments. There was just one comment by a SEEN member explaining that erasure was very much not what SEEN was about. I don’t have the guts to like the SEEN post, I wish I did. But the implications for my job and my career are too scary.

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That’s so disappointing. But exactly what I would expect. I doubt that the GC people are in a massive minority, they’re just terrified of speaking out. I think I would have had to keep quiet in your shoes too and it would have really pained me.

LuciferRising · 13/11/2022 15:16

This is what worries me Green.

GreenAllOver · 13/11/2022 13:43

LK1972 · 10/11/2022 19:18

Correction, had to use the government email login, but did it from home laptop - it doesn't accept non-gov email addresses, which is fair I guess

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I’m also Defra. I had a look on Yammer - massive thread (now deleted) under the announcement. 10 people ‘thumbs up’, 70 ‘sad face’. Another Yammer thread, started by someone who identifies as trans saying SEEN was about erasing trans people, with hundreds of supportive comments. There was just one comment by a SEEN member explaining that erasure was very much not what SEEN was about. I don’t have the guts to like the SEEN post, I wish I did. But the implications for my job and my career are too scary.

Lilah10 · 13/11/2022 13:42

Tallisker · 13/11/2022 11:37

Civil Service and ALBs st the moment, Lilah. Perhaps it's an opportunity for the wider public sector to start a similar network.

@Tallisker That is a real shame as there are huge implications to kids with gender ideology. I see it now in my primary school in year 5. Some teachers wear they/them badges.😡

Tallisker · 13/11/2022 11:37

Civil Service and ALBs st the moment, Lilah. Perhaps it's an opportunity for the wider public sector to start a similar network.

Lilah10 · 13/11/2022 09:48

If I work in a school can I join?

MaryThorne · 13/11/2022 08:55

I’m a Civil Servant and have just signed up. Great news, hope it’s a network that starts being publicised by individual departments- I certainly haven’t heard anything from my department about it yet.

stealtheatingtunnocks · 13/11/2022 08:25

It is a great model. Maybe the NHS employees will set up something similar.

I do hope so

TumbleFryer · 13/11/2022 08:05

ChiefClerkDrumknott · 12/11/2022 09:43

@TumbleFryer I think I used to work in the same department as you. I was a member of the women’s network and left once it became GEN. I’m now in a different department but have been undergoing intensive training so haven’t had a chance to really look in to the networks. I will next week though, including this one.

I should have left when it became the gender equality network too. Maybe that’s the first thing I’ll do when I log in on Monday! They held a consultation about the name change but I was obviously in the minority who pointed out that women have a very specific lived experience and very specific challenges that justify them having their own network.

TumbleFryer · 13/11/2022 08:00

dandelionthistle · 12/11/2022 16:08

I wonder if we're the same Department, or if this is just the fashionable name change they're all doing? Our GEN seemed to immediately acquire a bloke on their steering committee, and booked the same 'inspiring dad' speaker twice. 🙃

Heaven forbid we retain a women's network which is actually about women.

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I’m DCMS. I see you are too @aseriesofstillimages.

We were strongly urged to attend trans awareness training a few months ago which essentially told us a lot of untruths about biology.

aseriesofstillimages · 12/11/2022 23:38

TumbleFryer · 12/11/2022 07:42

It’s great that it exists but I’m not sure how many people will have the balls to join it. In my departments I’m surrounded by people who think it should be about gender equality, not sex. About a year ago our “womens network” was renamed the “gender equality network”. And a lot of people have optionally out their preferred pronouns in their e-mail footer. The rot has well and truly set in.

That happened recently in DCMS too

TheBiologyStupid · 12/11/2022 21:30

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This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Here it is...

TheBiologyStupid · 12/11/2022 21:24

That occurred to me, too, Rum!

RumNotRun · 12/11/2022 20:12

The Telegraph appear to have lifted the HMRC staff member quote from here.

LuciferRising · 12/11/2022 19:51

This is great!!!!

Athenajm80 · 12/11/2022 17:35

Wow, that means WG is actually fairly good as we still have a Women's Network. If any of you work for WG, I would encourage you to join the network and the associated book club. The non fiction club has read/discussed a lot of good feminist reads like Trans and Authority Gap.

dandelionthistle · 12/11/2022 16:08

TumbleFryer · 12/11/2022 07:42

It’s great that it exists but I’m not sure how many people will have the balls to join it. In my departments I’m surrounded by people who think it should be about gender equality, not sex. About a year ago our “womens network” was renamed the “gender equality network”. And a lot of people have optionally out their preferred pronouns in their e-mail footer. The rot has well and truly set in.

I wonder if we're the same Department, or if this is just the fashionable name change they're all doing? Our GEN seemed to immediately acquire a bloke on their steering committee, and booked the same 'inspiring dad' speaker twice. 🙃

Heaven forbid we retain a women's network which is actually about women.

TheBiologyStupid · 12/11/2022 14:04

Tallisker · 12/11/2022 13:03

I challenged my lot about saying gender rather than sex when quoting the Equality Act and was told it was more usual these days to use the word gender, as it was more up to date. I asked if the EA had been updated as I'd just done the mandatory induction training and it was still showing at from 2010, and surely we couldn't change the wording of an Act of Parliament. The trainer said he'd check and get back to me but never did.

Lots of people put links in the chat about how sex is scientifically proven not to be binary, how non-binary people are now recognised in law, all the usual guff we see on here like links to Penis News etc. it was quite the bombardment. So I'm very glad to see this network but my word they have their work cut out!

Saying that there are only two sexes has forced a lecturer in the Department of Human Evolutionary Biology at Harvard to go on leave: whyevolutionistrue.com/2022/11/11/the-cancellation-of-carole-hooven/

emsyj37 · 12/11/2022 13:43

I think all it will take is for people to realise they are in the majority in thinking like this, and the vocal minority are just that - a few people making a lot of noise. I am really hopeful for very significant change.

Tallisker · 12/11/2022 13:03

I challenged my lot about saying gender rather than sex when quoting the Equality Act and was told it was more usual these days to use the word gender, as it was more up to date. I asked if the EA had been updated as I'd just done the mandatory induction training and it was still showing at from 2010, and surely we couldn't change the wording of an Act of Parliament. The trainer said he'd check and get back to me but never did.

Lots of people put links in the chat about how sex is scientifically proven not to be binary, how non-binary people are now recognised in law, all the usual guff we see on here like links to Penis News etc. it was quite the bombardment. So I'm very glad to see this network but my word they have their work cut out!

Justforthissnippet · 12/11/2022 12:36

I challenged the listing of 'gender' as a PC in the HR guidance at my Department and it was changed, although nobody notified me or responded to my email about it other than an acknowledgement of receipt. So worth keeping an eye on policies if you have raised this issue - they may be quietly changed in the background

Interesting - I’ll take a look. Thanks :)

MotherOfDottirs · 12/11/2022 11:38

Thanks, that’s clear. I hope LA workers will follow your lead.

emsyj37 · 12/11/2022 10:19

The SEEN network is Cabinet Office approved and as official as it gets. The launch was in late October hence not on the list.

I challenged the listing of 'gender' as a PC in the HR guidance at my Department and it was changed, although nobody notified me or responded to my email about it other than an acknowledgement of receipt. So worth keeping an eye on policies if you have raised this issue - they may be quietly changed in the background.