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Original poster

Sex Equality and Equity Network - Gender crit network for civil servants.

558 replies

fromorbit · 10/11/2022 10:06

Important new initiative for government workers. This is where a huge fight back is going to happen in behind the scenes government, in memos and meetings. If we don't win in the civil service, it doesn't matter how many demos or cases we win, how many twitter threads we write, sooner or later sex differences will be erased. If you work in government/public sector get involved asp.

seen-network.uk/

"We are happy to announce the launch of our new UK cross-government staff network, the Sex Equality and Equity Network.
SEEN is a staff network committed to promoting and supporting sex equality and equity between women and men in our workplaces, and helping all staff to thrive at work and fulfil their potential. The focus of our network is on challenging sex discrimination and upholding rights and protections that relate to sex (including the protections provided to those with the protected characteristics of sex, pregnancy and maternity and sexual orientation, as set out in the Equality Act 2010). We recognise that to achieve this and ensure sex equality and equity sometimes requires treating women and men differently, according to our different rights and needs.

We are also committed to the protected belief (covered by the protected characteristic of religion and belief in the Equality Act 2010) that biological sex is binary and immutable, that biological sex matters for both women and men in our everyday lives, including for our rights and needs in the workplace, and that biological sex must not be conflated with, or replaced by, the concepts of gender or gender identity."

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Treemouser · 14/11/2022 15:04

I missed the conversation on the SEEN yammer post, but I saw the later one written by an individual and the comments on there were depressing (except one brave voice!)

I have requested to join, I can't deny a small part of me is afraid of being 'outed', but I remind myself that 20 odd years ago I thought being outed as a lesbian would be the end of my life. In 20 years time everything will be different for us.

MsPinkMarshmallow · 14/11/2022 13:53

Really happy to see this, good news.

RaininginDarling · 14/11/2022 13:39

Not a CS but this thread makes me happy. I thought we'd lost all critical thinking within our institutions but apparently not.

LK1972 · 14/11/2022 13:33

Thanks all for pointing me to that DEFRA yammer thread, just read through the responses and wow, some of the stuff is unbelievable!

All the usual talking points- apparently it's totally proved by science that sex is not binary, MRI shows who's trans, GC people called transphobes, 'how can it possibly be legal to hold those opinions' etc etc

I didn't dare support the one brave poster publicly, talk about creating hostile environment Hmm

MrsOvertonsWindow · 14/11/2022 13:08

So pleased to see this development for women civil servants who have been on the receiving end of extreme levels of bullying and intimidation for some years. Back in 2019 this thread displayed the coercive control being used, going so far as to lecture women about the facial expressions and body language that are required from them when encountering a male (self identifying as a woman) in women's facilities like toilets and changing rooms:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3520371-civil-service-trans-policy-what-can-i-do

Sunseeker100 · 14/11/2022 12:59

MyVisionsComeFromSoup · 14/11/2022 12:15

And today on Yammer, the EA are celebrating Trans Awareness Week, and on the 20th they are going to "remember and honour the trans and gender-diverse folk who have lost their lives to violent acts". It's going to be a long slog getting anywhere

I'm following the reopened thread. It's a rather hostile environment that I definitely don't feel comfortable posting on. Really glad to see fellow colleagues on here!

Borderlinehungry · 14/11/2022 12:53

Any other civil servants partly delighted and partly paranoid that this is a massive TRA phishing exercise?

Tallisker · 14/11/2022 12:40

I wonder when they're going to have Old Disabled Women Week? I'm feeling erased.

MyVisionsComeFromSoup · 14/11/2022 12:15

And today on Yammer, the EA are celebrating Trans Awareness Week, and on the 20th they are going to "remember and honour the trans and gender-diverse folk who have lost their lives to violent acts". It's going to be a long slog getting anywhere

Tallisker · 14/11/2022 12:10

I thought it was fair and even handed too, Green. Didn't realise the poster was so senior, that's encouraging.

The people shouting down this new network keep going on about trans, but the network doesn't mention trans, just men and women. If TWA indeed W, they're covered too, surely? But of course, it's proof positive that they know they're not. Just sayin'

I probably need to name change now, shame, I like this name.

GreenAllOver · 14/11/2022 12:05

Tallisker · 14/11/2022 11:21

It's on our Yammer page, Lucifer, sorry, I didn't make that clear. I'm guessing it's departmental, not necessarily civil service wide. I'm not too clued up on these things.

If you’re talking about DEFRA, it was a statement on Yammer about courtesy to both sides from an HR Director. It read scrupulously fairly to me. I found it really reassuring to see someone that senior be even-handed - it looks like she (or whoever wrote it for her) is clear on the legal position.

Clymene · 14/11/2022 12:01

Wow this is great news! I shall let my CG friends know

Original poster
fromorbit · 14/11/2022 11:35

Great to see the network already bringing people together. No surprise it is already a target. We are re-enacting the role the first women and out gay people in public & government roles had. No-one wants us there. Because we mess up the cosy sexist bubble they have created.

There is an important lesson I think we can take from SEEN - note it is set up as a sex equality network for women and men. Women are going to be taking the lead on this BUT we need men too. They are capable of seeing how messed up these new sexist ideas are and how they damage all humans. Plus they function as human shields, because TRAs don't like attacking males. Sex matters to all humans if we want a better world we need to work together to improve things.

We clearly need similar set up for the NHS as a priority. That should be doable I think if people step up to organise. They already have other networks.
www.england.nhs.uk/about/working-for/staff-networks/

Also Local Government, but not sure how that can happen because of the way LG is set up. There are no cross council networks as far as I know. Traditionally we would do it through unions, but of course they have sold out to corporate neosexism. So do we fight to reclaim unions or go round them?

I know the Women's Trade Union Federation is working on networking critical ideas internally in unions, but not sure how far they have got.
twitter.com/WomensTUF

Then after we do all that and win, we just have to take on the world's largest corporations, the media, and academia.

OP posts:
Tallisker · 14/11/2022 11:21

It's on our Yammer page, Lucifer, sorry, I didn't make that clear. I'm guessing it's departmental, not necessarily civil service wide. I'm not too clued up on these things.

LuciferRising · 14/11/2022 11:18

Tallisker · 14/11/2022 10:22

Apparently this new network has posted this morning that bullying and harassment of colleagues with gender critical beliefs will not be tolerated. That's a start!

Where would this be posted?

FrancescaContini · 14/11/2022 10:30

Tallisker · 14/11/2022 10:22

Apparently this new network has posted this morning that bullying and harassment of colleagues with gender critical beliefs will not be tolerated. That's a start!

Fantastic! Are the adults putting a tentative step back into the room?

Tallisker · 14/11/2022 10:22

Apparently this new network has posted this morning that bullying and harassment of colleagues with gender critical beliefs will not be tolerated. That's a start!

TheseCowsAreSmall · 14/11/2022 09:09

Attention any devolved administration civil servants.

I've had confirmation that SEEN has only been authorised by CO to be open to home civil service (UK Gov/Westminster) and ALBs.

Disappointing, but hopefully some of us will be inspired to look at our own admins 👍

Scientistranswidow · 13/11/2022 22:16

I can't read all 139 posts. But I can thank OP for this excellent news and commend the courage of those who set up seen-network.uk/. You are standing on the shoulders of giant(esses): Maya Forstater, Keira Bell and others. Thank you!

TheBiologyStupid · 13/11/2022 21:02

I'm sure there are many who will join SEEN, they just won't speak about it publically.

I'm hoping that they are SEEN and heard...!

ickky · 13/11/2022 20:56

I'm sure there are many who will join SEEN, they just won't speak about it publically.

I know it is not a direct comparison, but look at the ratio in the comments on twitter, the GC vastly outnumber the other view.

MyVisionsComeFromSoup · 13/11/2022 17:46

I'm in one of the DEFRA agencies, nice to see other DEFRA people here! I was following the Yammer threads, and couldnt believe how much nonsense was being spouted by people working in a science based department!

ToiletTroubles · 13/11/2022 17:34

I've joined. Don't think our dept has Yammer. Not that many pronouns yet so far as I've seen although one unit hit headlines in trying to compel it a year or so ago. We're due 'a talk' on using pronouns but it hasn't yet materialised.

dandelionthistle · 13/11/2022 17:25

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

GreenAllOver · 13/11/2022 17:16

Tallisker There was a post announcing SEEN which had been closed by admins. I assume there had been a row in the comments underneath it (now deleted), which then carried on in the comments under the other post. There were lots of comments (in the 100s, I think) and I didn’t read them all, but it looked like that thread hadn’t been locked.

Some were arguing that SEEN was skirting around illegal language and tacitly encouraging people to cross that line, others that even if it was legal, it wasn’t an acceptable view to have publicly at work. So I don’t think Cab Off approval will make much difference to their views, unfortunately.

Lots of people are clearly very passionate and engaged. It made me question my views, yet again. But I still can’t see how we can apply the EA to our work if we don’t properly balance the rights of all the protected characteristics.