Sex Equality and Equity Network - Gender crit network for civil servants.

Thank you Maya and those incredible women who set this up.

I'm arm's length organisation which may be why I can't see the Yammer. I did sign up and get an acknowledgement, but nothing more yet.

Is there anything equivalent for police officers and staff do you know? Staff might be able to join this one as they received local government pensions but not sure about officers?

I’m not one of them but I know some of the women who have set up this group. It’s definitely not a phishing group of genderists; the women have worked with the Cabinet Office to make it happen. The Forstater judgment was key in ensuring that biology realists’ views were able to be seen as “Worthy of respect in a democratic society.” Thanks, Maya, and all who crowdfunded for her Employment Appeal Tribunal.

Are there different levels of Yammer? I can't see the SEEN network on my Yammer.

Yes. The reaction to SEEN makes the point of why it's needed perfectly. Well done to all involved, and good luck!

It's like Mermaids and LGBA again. Wah wah wah you're not centring MEEEE

From SEEN:

Sex Equality and Equity Network.
SEEN is a staff network committed to promoting and supporting sex equality and equity between women and men in our workplaces

it’s literally not about you

and sometimes other people need stuff. Pro tip: other people are human too

I think it’s helpful for everyone if this provokes more discussion. Sunlight n all.

also, how one group responds to believing itself to be in disagreement with another tells its own story. Especially in a professional setting.

long time activists or people who have felt marginalised will probably believe themselves to be on top of issues - but are more like to have been in a bubble of corroboration. Again, more discussion will be good.

And the lgbt group mentioned upthread should be mindful that the proposal is for a new network, not to change the one they have.

Finally, I'd strongly advise that any CS with concerns about how their own Departments are handling this use the proper whistleblowing processes rather than sharing screenshots with GC organisations as suggested up thread.

I agree. Doing so would risk disciplinary consequences, and also expose colleagues visible in the screenshots to potential backlash.

This is chilling - but also somewhat confusing: I don't know what code they're referring to, because the Civil Service Code is about integrity, honesty, impartiality and objectivity. Not 'inclusion'.

Many might argue that SEEN is a lot better aligned with the tenets of the CS Code than its detractors. I'd like to think the CO process was undertaken thoroughly and on a fully informed basis.

So in many ways that sounds like a dangerous overreach from the LGBT network.

At the same time I think it is a genuinely worrying context, and I wouldn't trust that the unions would have our backs in this. (Using 'our' v broadly as I'm not properly involved at all although have requested to join.)

Finally, I'd strongly advise that any CS with concerns about how their own Departments are handling this use the proper whistleblowing processes rather than sharing screenshots with GC organisations as suggested up thread.

Could you counter the charge over “inclusion “ with the observation that it’s important to be inclusive of women?

The only way this shit is “inclusive “ is if women are overlooked.

I don't know if anyone will be interested, but I am going to try my best to set up Seen-Wales. If any of you are willing to volunteer to help and work for Welsh Gov, please let me know. I understand that we're all anonymous on here so you may be reluctant to share details (and I have name changed recently which may not help!) but I hope some of you may be willing to trust me.

Yes, they have. A member of the exec has said that explicitely. Thankfully a number of colleagues are on the case with HR.

Yes, I think the more publicity that these bullies get the better. It's unacceptable that anyone in the civil service behaves in this way towards colleagues. The press might be interested? The Times, the Telegraph and the Mail are now aware of what's happening and regularly pick up incidents like this.

@MrsOvertonsWindow Do you think it would be worth sending some screenshots of the comments that are allowed to stand on that yammer thread to Sex Matters as well, as they genuinely made me feel afraid of showing my support to the lone brave voice and unsafe to voice my legally protected belief?

On the other hand I wonder if seeing that apparently it's been proved by science that sex is not binary may make some people dig deeper into it.

Really disturbed by the vitriol of some of the posts on there though

If they have please send it to Sex Matters. These bullies really need to be exposed and held to account for this coercive behaviour (exercised while funded by the tax payer)

Have they actually written that down Elephant?

Yes, "gender identity belief" is on the list of beliefs you're allowed to hold and express.

"Gender critical" beliefs are allowed to be held (very generous) but not expressed.

Almost as if they think that Forstater never happened.

Have they decreed that all talk about ideology, trans rights and gender woowoo is banned Elephant? Or is it just raising issues about facts, women's rights and child safeguarding they're trying to silence?

Great initiative especially as my civil service department has decreed that its unacceptable to express gender critical views at all at work.

Would love to know if anyone from my department has joined, but don't want to post where so that's no help.

I've seen similar in women's groups last year to what DEFRA are seeing. Those holding opposing views got away with using slurs and being hateful and those defending sex based rights were just silenced.