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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jigsaw PSHE resources

90 replies

HHH3 · 01/10/2022 14:48

Just looking through DS2’s primary school website at their PSHE policies. They are using the Jigsaw PSHE resources.

Does anyone have any thoughts/experience about these. It’s only really an overview so I can’t tell exactly how the LGBT+ stuff is taught.

For info, DS2 is autistic so he’s likely to take things very literally.

OP posts:
WhiteFire · 24/11/2022 23:16

My 10 year old school uses Jigsaw, she hasn't come home saying anything worrying. However due to the cultural and societal make-up of the school I am not sure that gender stuff is seen as a priority. So I couldn't say that it is because the Jigsaw material is ok, or because it just isn't dwelled upon.

21stCenturyProblems · 24/11/2022 23:06

@OhHolyJesus they haven’t done it by changing the Education act. They have done it by changing the Children and Families Act.

OhHolyJesus · 24/11/2022 22:30

And apparently the law was changed in September 2020

Who on Earth said that? The Education Act is here.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/56/contents

I recommend reading Chapters III and IV (particularly points 403-408 on sex education and political indoctrination).

There have been no updates to this law since 2011.

The guidance changed in 2020 and schools are actively encouraged to engage with parents, with tips on how to do this.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/engaging-parents-with-relationships-education-policy

If someone says such a broad and incorrect statement they really must evidence this and everyone in an education setting should read in full new government guidance which is anticipated soon.

MrsFButton · 24/11/2022 22:26

Jigsaw are very protective of their resources like any commercial curriculum provider. Their resources and lesson plans are their product so they're not going to publish it all online for free, and that's the same for any business that provides lesson planning and resources.

Some schools are a bit slack about Jogsaw's rules though so if you Google "Jigsaw knowledge organisers" it's not hard to find an overview by unit of work and yeargroup.

MrsFButton · 24/11/2022 22:26

Pineapple41 · 24/11/2022 22:06

I haven’t heard anything from my DC about gender from Jigsaw, but I do know they have a rather worrying session on “secrets” in KS1 where they are taught that good friends keep secrets when asked…

I think the learning objective of this lesson is to understand that there are two types of secrets: ones that are ok to keep like birthday presents and surprise parties, and "worry secrets", "which should always be shared with a trusted adult.

Pineapple41 · 24/11/2022 22:06

I haven’t heard anything from my DC about gender from Jigsaw, but I do know they have a rather worrying session on “secrets” in KS1 where they are taught that good friends keep secrets when asked…

MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/11/2022 20:06

ReadtheReviews · 24/11/2022 19:57

I think addressing gender stereotyping is good. If it's okay for boys to wear dresses then a boy wearing a dress isnt a challenge to their sex. They are still a boy. In a dress.
If you lock down the box of what a boy and girl can do, look like, be interested in, thats when people think they arent the 'right' sex.

Indeed OP. It's always a relief to see that a school is balanced and appropriate around gender issues. Most teachers (when they're not bullied by trans activist unions / colleagues) understand the need for balance and of course we need to gently explore these issues with children in an age appropriate way. It's great that parents are speaking out as that's what will impact on schools tempted to go buy into Stonewall / queer theory / porn advocating groups.

ReadtheReviews · 24/11/2022 19:57

I think addressing gender stereotyping is good. If it's okay for boys to wear dresses then a boy wearing a dress isnt a challenge to their sex. They are still a boy. In a dress.
If you lock down the box of what a boy and girl can do, look like, be interested in, thats when people think they arent the 'right' sex.

ReadtheReviews · 24/11/2022 19:40

And now Ive rtft and am off to chop my typing hand off.

ReadtheReviews · 24/11/2022 19:38

I read through all their policies, looked at their head honchos' fingers in pies and chatted to class teacher. It all seems age appropriate and fact based and as a gc parent I wasnt worried. Have a yr3 dd.

21stCenturyProblems · 24/11/2022 19:24

The school I’m at won’t allow me to see the material (we are pushing). And apparently the law was changed in September 2020, which DISALLOWS parents to remove them from PSHE lessons and forces a change in the curriculum for mandatory “Gender Stereotyping”… at 7yrs! I found out that one lesson the teacher asked the children to discuss, “should it be ok for boys to wear dresses”?!? Needless to say this coupled with the schools refusal to allow us access to the materials and the mandatory nature of the new curriculum is ringing alarm bells for us. What are they hiding???

OhHolyJesus · 22/11/2022 07:41

I don't know how Jigsaw explain the case of R Cowell without using the wrong body narrative. What else would you say to explain the reason for transitioning? To say this historical figure felt their body was at odds with an inner sense of self still indicates that there was a belief that their body wrong.

Any further explanation of feeling like a woman or preferring to cross dressing is always based on stereotypes, which again can't be used under guidance, it's not possible to teach gender ideology without stereotypes and as anything other than a belief, a personal one, or a general one followed by many, so it's much closer to a religion.

Even with updated lesson plans from Jigsaw they have a history of not being clear and truthful. For example they claimed to be endorsed by DofE (front page of their documents). The DofE doesn't endorse any PSHE/RSE provider, that's partly, IMO, why we are in this mess as of there was an approved list for schools they would haven't to spend the time they don't have finding decent providers. Because they don't have the time we end up with the not so decent ones in schools, in lessons and in our children's learning.

I have told the HT that if my child comes home from school with the words "born in the wrong body" then I will be disappointed raging.

MrsFButton · 21/11/2022 21:09

Quisto · 20/11/2022 09:50

My son in yr 6 has just had the Jigsaw Transgender lesson on Robert/a Cowell. He was told that Roberta was a woman born in a man's body. But this is Cornwall and the staff have been thoroughly groomed by outsiders to accept this nonsense.

That's at odds with the Jigsaw leaflet I just mentioned which says "At Jigsaw we, of course, understand the difference between 'sex' and 'gender' and adopt the World Health Organisation distinction" and later says, with specific reference to the RC lesson, "At no point does Jigsaw relay a 'wrong body' narrative."

MrsFButton · 21/11/2022 21:03

I think if your DCs school is still teaching the Robert(a) Cowell lesson they're using an out of date version of Jigsaw. The updated version of this lesson uses Laverne Cox and Caitlyn Jenner as examples. It talks about biological sex before gender identity.

There is also a leaflet called "How does Jigsaw approach gender identity?" But the version I found when I googled references the old RC lesson rather than the update.

Leafstamp · 21/11/2022 20:45

OhHolyJesus · 21/11/2022 16:14

I'm afraid @Quisto this warrants a formal complaint as it's in breach of both the education act (schools cannot be political) and is in conflict with mandatory guidance (needs to be based on robust facts).

If I were you I would also inform OFSTED and wrote to your MP as well as wrote directly to the DoE.

I'm really sorry your son has been treated so badly by an experienced teacher who is a trusted adult. Red flags all over the place!

I echo this. Let us know if you need support.

OhHolyJesus · 21/11/2022 17:44

I don't blame you Quisto, I was sure someone would read the jigsaw lesson plans and see the misogyny and stereotypes straight away. I didn't think I would have to be pointing it out but I did.

It's very disappointing to think that teachers, particularly experienced ones, can't see the impact of the silencing, the removal of asking questions/critical thinking. It is the very opposite of what they should be doing.

I hope you are able to raise this and escalate it as needed. Safe schools alliance would be a good place to turn to for support, which I'm sure you know about already. Mirium Cates may also be interested in hearing your experience...

I've heard another story from a school
I'm Cornwall and it does seem quite captured based on just your example and this other one. Very disturbing.

Quisto · 21/11/2022 16:43

@OhHolyJesus I knew it was against the new DfE guidance, Cornwall is very captured, Jigsaw is used by the whole county. I had a feeling it was going to go this way but I'm still extremely disappointed.

OhHolyJesus · 21/11/2022 16:14

I'm afraid @Quisto this warrants a formal complaint as it's in breach of both the education act (schools cannot be political) and is in conflict with mandatory guidance (needs to be based on robust facts).

If I were you I would also inform OFSTED and wrote to your MP as well as wrote directly to the DoE.

I'm really sorry your son has been treated so badly by an experienced teacher who is a trusted adult. Red flags all over the place!

Quisto · 21/11/2022 16:05

@OhHolyJesus sorry I didn't see your reply before it was deleted. My son spoke privately to his teacher today. He questioned whether anyone could actually be born in the wrong body. His teacher told him off for questioning this, teachers wouldn't tell you something that was wrong, people absolutely could be born in the wrong body. This is a mature male teacher who had a career before going into teaching.

OhHolyJesus · 20/11/2022 17:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Quisto · 20/11/2022 09:50

My son in yr 6 has just had the Jigsaw Transgender lesson on Robert/a Cowell. He was told that Roberta was a woman born in a man's body. But this is Cornwall and the staff have been thoroughly groomed by outsiders to accept this nonsense.

OhHolyJesus · 02/10/2022 12:47

We have a similar approach @Jobsagoodun1, the dinner conversations can be quite revealing as some of this has leaked into RE and assemblies it's been a lesson in itself for me and I now keep a watchful eye.

Jobsagoodun1 · 02/10/2022 12:15

I will look for your threads, OhHolyJesus. I have a feeling I may be needing them as DC has already told me this year that they have been watching CBBC Newsround in class.
Luckily my DC tend to come home and tell me warts and all about what happened in class, so I have already had the low down on the Jigsaw cuddly toys etc. I have asked them to let me know whenever the toys come out or they have Jigsaw lessons because it sounds ‘interesting’ and we can have chats about the topics at home.

OhHolyJesus · 02/10/2022 09:37

And to add, The Billy, Bella and B example was a sex-based stereotype for toys.

If you DM me OP I'd be happy to send you what I have on Jigsaw.

OhHolyJesus · 02/10/2022 09:36

Jobsagoodun1 · 02/10/2022 08:48

Our HT introduced Jigsaw with a message for parents which also mentioned ‘misunderstandings’ about PSHE.

I have heard of Jigsaw before on here, but all the official Jigsaw info to access online is so watered down it gives absolutely zero indication as to what children will be taught.

There are older threads about Jigsaw which has their lesson plans in screenshots attached so you can see the Jigsaw content and that's where I got the info from at first and why I had and raised concerns. It's clear from what they teach that they do cover 'transgender' by using the Robert/Roberta Cowell story for older kids and they also have a Billy, Bella and 'B' example for younger kids (5-6yrs) which implies there are children who are neither male nor female so it strongly suggests you can be inbetween or neither.

It's really not as innocent as Jigsaw make out, the HT who removed it remarked that in conversations with them there was a lot of confusion and diversion. They also claim to be endorsers by DoE which DoE don't do. They don't specifically say which external advisers are 'safe' to sue and which aren't. It's up to the schools but they need to operate within the mandatory guidelines, updated recently to specify that PSHE and RSE needs to be taught with "robust" statistics and be fact-based.

The letterbox system suggests that teachers can keep children's secrets. No decent teacher due to safeguarding awareness would encourage that.

Any parent is allowed to see the lesson content and materials. If schools are reluctant or prevent this you have to think, what are they hiding?