Jigsaw PSHE resources

So glad to find this thread, I started the conversation with DDs (Y5) school, I have been told they have no intention in covering gender identity, but if a child brings it up they will discuss it age appropriately with them.
They have told me they use Jigsaw and HT sent me an overview on the PSHE program, but as expected it doesn't really tell you what is being taught.
They did do an assembly on stereotypes and I'm quite certain the head knows what a women is, I'm a bit concerned re the secrets part as I do know at the start of term they had a secret box for questions the children wanted to keep private, they were discussing babies and periods, Does this sound normal? It concerned me these questions are seen as taboo, and not something normal that could be discussed in the class.

I've just found a thread on Twitter about Roberta. ( Easy to Google and find). I also discovered that the first teaching resource about Roberta was produced by Stonewall. Roberta has some interesting views on XY men transitioning in the last interview they gave in 1972.

I understood, and the wiki page confirms, (presumably this is the same used by the teacher of @SuperlativeOxymoron 's y6 class - assuming it hasn't been edited recently) that Cowell claimed to have an "intersex" condition after an orchiechtomy which was performed by 'trans man' surgeon and friend Michael Dillon.

It was the "intersex" condition claim that lead to the birth certificate change. The surgery was illegal at the time, the surgeon who did a "vaginoplasty" on Cowell had done the "phalloplasty" operation on Dillon which, at the time, was experimental and only done on dead bodies.

This is all according to Wiki anyway, which is hardly a trusted resource and none of the above is a ringing endorsement of Cowell's story. I'm glad it was pulled but what replaces it is not any better IMO.

Wait what?

Cowell was a man with a DSD condition, or a woman who wanted to be a man?
A mother who used the label of father?

I thought Robert was male but wanted to be viewed and compete as a female.

I'm thoroughly confused.

That's very interesting @21stCenturyProblems . I thought xx males were always infertile, even though they usually have normal male genitalia. I have read that Roberta fathered two children before their transition.

@Quisto there is a script it’s provided by jigsaw the third party provider of these lesson plans. There words to
follow and bracketed words meant for teachers notes. Throughout the material there is instruction for teachers to “use their discretion”. This means absolutely that the detail would then be dictated by the teachers views and moral standards. Which would be quite variable and because of the culture of teachers generally lean to the liberal side

Roberta Cowell was never a man. The material being taught is incorrect. Roberta Cowell had XX chromosomes and this was medically certified. There are a number of other factual inaccuracies and more worryingly omissions in the jigsaw material. It has now been officially withdrawn by Jigsaw too

I would like to know if there is a " script" for this lesson that teachers either follow to the letter or just pick and choose from. I'm trying to figure out if my son's teacher went completely " off piste" with his interpretation.

I still find the fact that Jigsaw consider children to be sexual beings at age 5/6 to be deeply concerning. Children do not have a sexual orientation at such a young age as they aren't interested in sex (and saying they are in a red flag) and gender identity is a very contested belief, unproven by science and therefore not 'robust facts'. It's ridiculous to assume that all people - adult or child - have one (or that a lack of one makes you 'c*s', not a word Jigsaw use, but who says we have a gender identity?).

The Cowell lesson implies this person was "born in the wrong body", even if those exact words are not used. How else can it be explained as to why this person wanted to change the body in the first place?

The sporting achievements this person had were not of a female achievements so the races Cowell won were not the first of its kind for a woman, it is not possible to disconnect the race wins from the lie that this person was female as compared to men in similar male competitions this person would not have won.

I would not dismiss these lessons as acceptable or fine because the message the children leave with is the same.

The teachers may not be showing images of the surgery this person had performed on their body (after various lies) as that would be highly inappropriate but the idea that this person 'became' female as their name was changed the name, clothes etc is what very young, impressionable children will understand.

It is a lie.

Original not own.

Yes, she said it's not a necessity, but since some people feel they can no longer relate to the name they were given at birth they will change it, others won't because their name is part of their history and identity, some will, like Roberta did, go for a female version of their own name.

I found it quite a well balanced answer, and in reflection still do.

Do you know how the teacher answered the question about name change?

My yr6 class did the Roberta Cowell lesson last week, our PHSE lead (who is also a yr6 teacher) chose to do that lesson over the Caitlyn Jenner/Laverne Cox due to the WW2 connection, as its our topic of the term.
She read the excerpts from the wiki page and biography to the children, no mention of being born in the wrong body, just explained that Roberta was born male and known as Robert and discussed how after the war/marriage/children etc Roberta wasn't comfortable in her body as a male and the choice to become female was explored and done.
It wasn't pushed and was explained as this is what they wanted to do. Conversation focused more on her accomplishments as a race car driver and fighter jet pilot, due to the relevance to what they are learning.
The only real question that was related to gender/sex was "do you need to change your name?"

drapers-infants.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/document/How-does-Jigsaw-approach-gender-identity-Copy-1.pdf?t=1623328855?ts=1624699884

I asked our primary school for the full jigsaw curriculum and approach to LGBT. I went through it v carefully. It was fine, and they expressly stated they don’t do the ‘born in the wrong body’ shite.

Our school had a "parental consultation" before the new PSHE curriculum was introduced. This in reality was email us if you have any questions, but parents had no idea what to ask questions about. The yr 6 Transgender lesson is not compulsory, but my understanding is individual schools can choose to include it if they think it's relevant. My son went to a school nursery with a boy ( in the yr above) who had become a girl by yr 2. Obviously, he recognised the boy and we had an age appropriate conversation about this. It's not possible to change sex etc. The school therefore felt it appropriate to teach this stuff as we had a " trans child " all the way through juniors. As I said , this is Cornwall who wrote and distributed the Trans Student Guide in 2012.

Also found this document

www.gov.uk/guidance/plan-your-relationships-sex-and-health-curriculum#deciding-what-to-teach-at-primary-and-secondary-level

which says in regard to deciding what to teach, when:

Use your knowledge of your pupils to choose whether to:

introduce secondary requirements in primary with pupils who are ready (with parental consultation and consent)

(My underlining)
If I've read it right that gender identity isn't required to be taught until secondary, then the quote above presumably means that it shouldn't be taught at primary level without parental consent.

Prompted by this chat I've looked at the guidance from DfE on statutory relationships and health education.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/relationships-education-relationships-and-sex-education-rse-and-health-education

Now I may be wrong, because I'm a lazy skim-reader, but I can't find any reference to gender identity in the sections that set out what should be taught by the end of primary school. In the secondary section it says it should be taught, amongst a host of other things, in an "age-appropriate" way.

I may be wrong, but if the guidance doesn't mention teaching gender identity in primary then presumably that means it's non statutory. If taught, the school is going beyond government requirements for statutory relationships education. So presumably there is a parental right to withdraw because it's not statutory?

I also agree that regardless of examples used their ideological agenda is clear.

Jenner has had rumours circulating of wearing daughter/wife's underwear (daughter found underwear and suspected an affair). Cox has been mentioned on these boards before - from being nominated for a women-only award to speeches supporting male prisoners in women-only prisons. Both are not without their own history which I strongly suspect will not be mentioned as neither are age-appropriate for primary school children.

Also, both are Americans who live by American laws and are known from popular culture. Jenner is most known for Olympic medals won when known as Bruce.

Thanks @OhHolyJesus and @MrsFButton more invaluable updates. I do agree it doesn’t matter if their material is updated, their agenda has already been revealed and a lack
of critical assessment is now evident in their material.

But 🙏 this new info will help me for my meeting.

In Roberta’s Sunday Times Interview she states she is XX chromosome and this was certified by a doctor. She then goes on to say for this reason before transition she was a “freak” and the medical intervention put things right. She follows this up by calling all those who follow her transition but have XY chromosomes are really freaks and she denounces the transgender “permissive” society. I don’t call anyone freaks, these are her own words. This is omitted from the jigsaw materials. Instead they paint her has having an “amazing life”. Despite the fact that she suffered war time atrocities and severe depression. My research later reveals that she met another transgender man, FTM called Michael Dillon (nee Laura). Who’s was a doctor. They had a relationship, Laura/Michael carried out the transition operation on Roberta during their relationship, and then Roberta Left Laura/Michael, and withdrew from society. What Jigsaw calls an amazing transgender life, was really a life of war, severe mental Illness, medical legal & ethics infringements, Co-dependent relationships and an isolated lonely death.

Just flagging up that Jigsaw has updated this lesson so it doesn't reference Cowell any more. It now has two more contemporary examples (Laverne Cox and Caitlyn Jenner)

@21stCenturyProblems

To be clear these changes don't stop access to material, they remove parent's ability to withdraw children from Relationships Education, coupled with structure local government enforcement of set material.

I understand now, that makes sense. You cannot withdraw your child from mandatory RSE/PSHE but I suspect if it were necessary, arguments could be found and negotiations made, particularly if the content of the lessons didn't align with family values, but it's an interesting point as is the difference between faiths schools and other non-denominational schools being able to maintain their own curriculum on this subject. That's a good point.

I'd be very happy to stay in touch on this, either here or feel free to DM me.

There is a lot happening in this area of education, politically speaking, (I find Parents Against Gender Ideology In Our Schools in you tube very informative) and it's important I think for parents to know what their children will be told and taught at school.

Good luck with your meeting and let us know how it goes!

@OhHolyJesus this is very valuable thank you. I am also watching the schools bill amendment. I did wonder if the change to the alternative act created legal conflict because they are both statutes. Give me a couple of days I will dig out the detail of which clause/section etc... To be clear these changes don't stop access to material, they remove parent's ability to withdraw children from Relationships Education, coupled with structure local government enforcement of set material. They have also removed the coverage of the equality Act from education. Which means the religious beliefs protected characteristic can no longer be used as a way to withdraw students from conflicting ideology education. However, faith schools still have control over the PSHE and RE topics their children are taught, which does create a clear discrimination between groups of differing faiths or none.

I have a meeting with the school I am preparing for tomorrow and based upon the impromptu pre-meeting last week, I think I have persuaded them to show them on a computer screen.

Thank you Clare's crowd funding, I had been looking for that, I'm watching her case with interest. I hope we can keep in touch? I'm also planning on further action. Because all these pieces together do show he clear structured attempt to force certain ideologies into schools from primary level upwards.

I do have excerpts of worrying material from this article below (year 6 Primary). It's about transgender and transitioning. I have seen the material here:

www.conservativesforwomen.org/jigsaw-presents-gender-ideology-to-schoolchildren

I have seen the Sunday Times Interview with Roberta Cowell on 12th March 1978 and the article from the independant in 2013, where most of the quotes and the text from the Jigsaw material come from (respectively). And it clearly demonstrates that Jigsaw have deliberately removed aspects of Roberta Cowells views to make the jigsaw material biased towards transgender lifestyles. After only 30 minutes of research, it's clear that the jigsaw material is biassed and skewed. This is clear example of indoctrination.

I'd be grateful if you could point me to the update where the change to parental rights was made as I would like to take a look.

Changing one law to stop parents from having access to sex education materials whilst another allows it and guidance pretty much insists upon it, creates a conflict in law.

I'm aware that amendment 171F to the schools bill is currently withdrawn

bills.parliament.uk/bills/3156/stages/16474/amendments/10000409

...and that Clare Page aims to legally challenge the ICO decision where access to specific sex education materials was refused under 'commercial interest'.

www.crowdjustice.com/case/transparency-in-schools-foi-ap/

Further to the tip to google Knowledge organiser Jigsaw if you then look for a school in Surrey by the name St B... it will take you to some very useful links.

I just don't want to link direct on here.