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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Teacher sacked after refusing to use preferred pronouns without first checking with parents

121 replies

rogdmum · 25/09/2022 06:41

“I wanted at least to make sure that my student had parental support and was making an informed decision,’ he said. ‘As a parent myself, I would have been furious if my child had taken this step and I hadn’t been told anything.’

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11246431/Swindon-teacher-sacked-refusing-use-pupils-preferred-pronouns-without-parental-permission.html

I sometimes wonder whether my daughter’s former teachers had any idea her school was supporting her transition (initially) without our knowledge and against clinical advice. I suspect even if they had been aware and had been uncomfortable about doing so, there would have been no way for them to push back against it with management.

OP posts:
TooBigForMyBoots · 25/09/2022 23:13

Our government has been in quite a bit of disarray for a long time.😆

4 PMs in 6 years. They are a chaotic mess, dropping women's rights every step along the way.

TheClogLady · 25/09/2022 23:04

TooBigForMyBoots · 25/09/2022 22:48

So why hasn't it happened?

In case you haven’t noticed, our government has been in quite a bit of disarray lately (and Braverman herself has a had a promotion).

The heel dragging is annoying, but I suspect part of the delay is that the Cass review is taking much longer than was originally anticipated - hence having to issue an ‘interim report’.

Lisad1231981 · 25/09/2022 22:59

Nellodee · 25/09/2022 07:13

At my school, we are required NOT to use preferred pronouns unless we have explicit parental permission. We have to report the request to our well-being lead, who will check with parents. Almost always, the child is one for whom the well being team already have substantial parental contact. I count myself very fortunate indeed.

Mines the same, but for how long? Who knows

Novum · 25/09/2022 22:57

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/09/2022 16:40

I was also told it would be a gdpr breach to tell parents.

Parents are the legal guardians of their children. If that was the case there are all sorts of things which happen to their children at school that parents wouldn't be allowed to know about. I'm pretty sure that's wrong.

Once children become Gillick competent their wishes carry very strong weight.

Rightsraptor · 25/09/2022 22:57

It's interesting that this female student who decided she was male (at the centre of this fiasco) wanted to be able to enter a maths competition for girls, while claiming to be a boy.

Talk about having cake & eating it.

TooBigForMyBoots · 25/09/2022 22:48

TheClogLady · 25/09/2022 21:05

It’s a lot easier to update school policies than it is to reduce violent crime.

So why hasn't it happened?

DameMaud · 25/09/2022 22:46

Very interesting @ArabellaScott thank you. So much better to hear from the horse's mouth than to read

MrsOvertonsWindow · 25/09/2022 22:26

TheClogLady · 25/09/2022 19:34

There are also concerns re school platforms such as Teams and Google Classroom which can out students to parents or dead-name students.

School systems are most definitely not equipped to follow the guidance written by the lobby groups (which certainly exposes the lack of any child development, safeguarding or equalities law professionals in drawing up these documents).

As for the GDPR excuse? What a load of bollocks. I know someone who found out school had transed her daughter when she signed into the computer system to top up her daughter’s dinner money account! If the GDPR thing was true, that school would be in a spot of legal bother.

The school may well be in a spot of legal bother anyway because the the government definition of parental responsibility states:

(copy and pasted from here: www.gov.uk/parental-rights-responsibilities )

‘All mothers and most fathers have legal rights and responsibilities as a parent - known as ‘parental responsibility’.

If you have parental responsibility, your most important roles are to:

provide a home for the child
protect and maintain the child

You’re also responsible for:

disciplining the child
choosing and providing for the child’s education
-agreeing to the child’s medical treatment
naming the child and agreeing to any change of name
looking after the child’s property’

end copy/paste

bold emphasis mine.

Social transition is a ‘psychosocial intervention’ and changing a minor’s name is an unlawful interference in parental responsibility.

Any schools who are doing this are wide open to lawsuits, regardless of who wrote the policy, someone at the school signed off on it and someone will be held responsible.

It’s just a matter of time and it won’t be pretty when it happens.

Excellent post TheClogLady.
I'd also add that only the courts can remove parental responsibility. It's why the police and social services must head for the courts when they remove children - even in an emergency they only have a limited amount of time before their actions must be sanctioned by the courts. Even then parents still retain responsibility and must be consulted when their children are in care.
Yet schools pay any attention to adults with a vested interest in transing children rather than pay attention to the law - and they get away with it because parents understandably are reluctant to drag their child's school through the courts - which is why it continues.

AnotherDayAnotherView · 25/09/2022 22:14

DontTouchThat · 25/09/2022 21:12

It’s good to see teachers starting to challenge this nonsense. Teachers are there to teach not go along with the delusions of children, it’s ridiculous. A child who is ‘distressed’ by a pronoun clearly has mental health issues, to NOT point this out to parents should be the real concern.

Exactly - nail on head - glad I am not the only one who sees the truth in this statement

DontTouchThat · 25/09/2022 21:12

It’s good to see teachers starting to challenge this nonsense. Teachers are there to teach not go along with the delusions of children, it’s ridiculous. A child who is ‘distressed’ by a pronoun clearly has mental health issues, to NOT point this out to parents should be the real concern.

Firecarrier · 25/09/2022 21:09

I work at a college.

There have been cases where young people under 18 have decided they want to be referred to as the opposite sex. Parents don't agree (as is their right) and we are essentially asked to lie to parents as we have to use birth name etc if phoning up.

We had one who would get dressed again at college so her parents were kept in the dark.

Cillery · 25/09/2022 21:07

We are now getting into a situation where common sense and parental rights are going out of the window in favour of lunatic fringe views which are urged upon us by the left- fringe groups. The problem is people like Starmer won’t stand up to them because there are so many sympathisers in his own party,

TheClogLady · 25/09/2022 21:05

jgw1 · 25/09/2022 21:01

Hasn't Braverman also said to the police to reduce murders by 20%.

I for one am absolutely certain that now she has said that to the police it will definitely happen.

It’s a lot easier to update school policies than it is to reduce violent crime.

jgw1 · 25/09/2022 21:01

TooBigForMyBoots · 25/09/2022 20:57

Oops, meant to post this quote.

Hasn't Braverman also said to the police to reduce murders by 20%.

I for one am absolutely certain that now she has said that to the police it will definitely happen.

TooBigForMyBoots · 25/09/2022 20:57

TeenDivided · 25/09/2022 06:56

I though the Cass review & Suella Braverman had now said something about this? That it shouldn't happen?

Oops, meant to post this quote.

TooBigForMyBoots · 25/09/2022 20:56

They "said something", they just haven't done anything.

Rightsraptor · 25/09/2022 20:53

This was covered on GB News's Free Speech Nation this evening. Andrew Doyle interviewed Kevin Lister and he's taking legal action against the college.

TheClogLady · 25/09/2022 19:34

There are also concerns re school platforms such as Teams and Google Classroom which can out students to parents or dead-name students.

School systems are most definitely not equipped to follow the guidance written by the lobby groups (which certainly exposes the lack of any child development, safeguarding or equalities law professionals in drawing up these documents).

As for the GDPR excuse? What a load of bollocks. I know someone who found out school had transed her daughter when she signed into the computer system to top up her daughter’s dinner money account! If the GDPR thing was true, that school would be in a spot of legal bother.

The school may well be in a spot of legal bother anyway because the the government definition of parental responsibility states:

(copy and pasted from here: www.gov.uk/parental-rights-responsibilities )

‘All mothers and most fathers have legal rights and responsibilities as a parent - known as ‘parental responsibility’.

If you have parental responsibility, your most important roles are to:

provide a home for the child
protect and maintain the child

You’re also responsible for:

disciplining the child
choosing and providing for the child’s education
-agreeing to the child’s medical treatment
naming the child and agreeing to any change of name
looking after the child’s property’

end copy/paste

bold emphasis mine.

Social transition is a ‘psychosocial intervention’ and changing a minor’s name is an unlawful interference in parental responsibility.

Any schools who are doing this are wide open to lawsuits, regardless of who wrote the policy, someone at the school signed off on it and someone will be held responsible.

It’s just a matter of time and it won’t be pretty when it happens.

Wavingnotdrown1ng · 25/09/2022 18:46

I will welcome government advice, as atm organisations such as Stonewall and Proud Trust are using outdated terminology and presenting opinions as facts and policy as they would like it to be. A PP said that this only affects a couple of students in a year group - not my experience, especially at KS5. There are also concerns re school platforms such as Teams and Google Classroom which can out students to parents or dead-name students. It’s also the case that students need to use deadnames for exam board paperwork, for example for exam entries and NEAs, as the new name hasn’t usually been changed by deed-poll. Parents’ Evenings etc can be excruciating if you forget new names, pronouns, whose parents prefer the old choices, whose don’t know, whose know but don’t approve, who uses a different combination of names and pronouns …

caringcarer · 25/09/2022 17:37

Sounds like good teacher to me.

rogdmum · 25/09/2022 17:29

I think some schools are very good at hiding behind GDPR when it suits them. Schools share all sorts of information about pupils with their parents. Why does this get special exemption under GDPR? The ICO is clear that GDPR is not a barrier where there are safeguarding concerns, anyway.

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 25/09/2022 17:20

I'm no an expert in how GDPR interacts with safeguarding, except to say that safeguarding children (in my experience) takes precedence over all other issues. Trigger warning
I worked with a school where a child confided concerns to a member of staff who failed to share it and the child subsequently killed themselves that evening. The parents were of the view that had the school shared the information with them they would have been in a position to intervene and protect their child. It was before the implementation of Serious Case Reviews so this was not tested against legislation as it would be now. However due to my involvement with SCRs, I can attest that professionals failing to share critical information with those charged with protecting a child are a major focus for criticism.
It defies belief that schools decide to withhold information from parents because trans activists tell them to.

Leafstamp · 25/09/2022 17:16

I just wanted to stop by to say that I don’t think schools should be agreeing to new pronouns even with parental consent.

I think the Cass Review will recommend that this psychological intervention should only be carried by schools if advised by a professional working with that child re their gender distress/dysphoria.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/09/2022 16:40

I was also told it would be a gdpr breach to tell parents.

Parents are the legal guardians of their children. If that was the case there are all sorts of things which happen to their children at school that parents wouldn't be allowed to know about. I'm pretty sure that's wrong.