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The Rest is Politics podcast

112 replies

Stripeytriangle · 11/08/2022 14:13

Anyone else listen to this?

I was so disappointed by the “trans question” they answered in today’s episode - it was why are trans people used in the culture wars and isn’t it awful to treat vulnerable people as a political football.

And the answer was, yes, it’s terrible and (Rory) in 10 years’ time, no one will understand why we were obsessed with this and (Alistair) it’s reflective of the lack of seriousness in politics - trans people have it bad enough without politicians making it was by playing for applause from the golf club bores.

I agree that trans people should not be used for cheap political points - nor should any minority.

But their conversation was itself utterly unserious: no acknowledgement that there are some serious policy issues to untangle, no reflection on the recent court cases nor of the findings of the interim Cass Review, no consideration of any conflicts of rights - no acknowledgement in fact that there is anything to be seen here other than nasty people in the nasty party playing to the nasty crowd by picking on a highly marginalised group.

I feel disproportionately disappointed because I think of these two, especially Rory, as quite serious ideas people.

I’m neither a Tory nor a golfer, but I was utterly relieved by Braverman’s speech affirming my right to single sex spaces and my kids’ right not to be socially transitioned without my knowledge. This really shouldn’t be a left/right issue - it’s a human rights and safeguarding issue. In ten year’s time I think we’ll look back at this as an era when groupthink and massive failures of safeguarding led to life-altering surgery rendering many gay, autistic and looked-after children infertile, in pain and deprived of a sex life.

What was going on in this podcast? Have they not engaged with the issues beyond #bekind or are they scared of the jkr treatment?

OP posts:
TheMarzipanDildo · 14/08/2022 16:20

watertheroses · 13/08/2022 15:15

Whenever Tom Holland starts addressing any women's rights issues or a person's self-identity, on The Rest of History podcast, Dominic Sandbrook reminds Tom to be careful in case they get cancelled.

Show quote history

Dominic Sandbrook wrote a really good article in the Daily Mail defending Kathleen Stock

watertheroses · 13/08/2022 15:15

Theeyeballsinthesky · 11/08/2022 20:25

Disappointed but not surprised. They’ve clearly avoided it as an issue for as long as possible but it’s got to the point where they can’t so they’ve gone for the path of least resistance ‘something something vulnerable be kind of Boris thinks it, it must he awful’

happily the rest is history’s Tom Holland has openly supported jkr & the baroness on twitter

Whenever Tom Holland starts addressing any women's rights issues or a person's self-identity, on The Rest of History podcast, Dominic Sandbrook reminds Tom to be careful in case they get cancelled.

teawamutu · 13/08/2022 13:59

tresleches · 13/08/2022 13:51

I just sent my email too. Unfollowed TRIP and off to look at Double Jeopardy.

Thanks you lot; I usually just lurk and absorb then rant with friends but I'm in a fuck it mood today

Mountains are moved by women who say 'fuck it'.

Look at how far we've come!

tresleches · 13/08/2022 13:51

I just sent my email too. Unfollowed TRIP and off to look at Double Jeopardy.

Thanks you lot; I usually just lurk and absorb then rant with friends but I'm in a fuck it mood today

teawamutu · 13/08/2022 13:05

TullyApplebottom · 13/08/2022 07:34

To be honest, Campbell’s recent behaviour on so many issues definitely confirms that Blair was the brain of that whole enterprise. Campbell was just the bruiser. Blair continues, despite everything, to read the public accurately a lot of the time. A smart guy.

Good point.

I'm finishing my email today. I am still so disappointed, but I guess it's a lesson to be not to expect too much.

I am totally pointing out that they're both older than me and don't seem to think that makes their fecking opinions irrelevant.

Reflectiononglass · 13/08/2022 12:41

I emailed too. I politely said they were being unserious and indulging in the 3Ps themselves.

I feel like I’ve found my people here, as I’m a disappointed remainiacs/TRIP listener who was delighted with the Double Jeopardy podcast interviewing Kathleen Stock.
Will try The Rest Is History to see if it annoys me or not!

MaMaLa321 · 13/08/2022 07:55

I've sent an email. I just had to.

TullyApplebottom · 13/08/2022 07:34

To be honest, Campbell’s recent behaviour on so many issues definitely confirms that Blair was the brain of that whole enterprise. Campbell was just the bruiser. Blair continues, despite everything, to read the public accurately a lot of the time. A smart guy.

tresleches · 13/08/2022 07:09

NecessaryScene · 13/08/2022 06:48

What is it with mature, politically experienced adults being infatuated with misrepresentations of some kind of pretend coherent "youth politics", in the context of capture by other "grown ups" at Stonewall and beyond?

It's another manifestation of the "identity politics" disease. Some vocal people within a group denote themselves the spokespeople for the group, and others feel they have to go along with it.

Anyone in the group with a different opinion doesn't really count.

It's also faulty reasoning/intuition. "Young people are more open to change" is true, but it doesn't follow from that that a change is good or will stick, or that any resistance is simply coming from lack of openness to change.

If a change is good, and can be shown to be good, then sure, those opposing it just due to resistance to change will fade away, and it can stick.

But with something like this, the more people are aware of it and see it in practice, the more resistance grows, everywhere. Most acceptance is coming from general openness to change (or trying to virtual signal openness to change), not actually considering it properly.

True. To this I would add the perceived homogeny of "woke" issues muddying the analysis of what changes might be good. If you agree racism is bad, then you must also think trans women are women. I can see how this homogeny may have stemmed from the features of identity politics you mention

Also: the effect of parents in the public eye and their children both being on Twitter

Birdwitted · 13/08/2022 07:06

*past! Also, I LOVE the rest is history! It's a totally different kettle of fish - to me it's joyful and incredibly informative. I appreciate if you find either of them annoying it wouldn't work for you. When I started reading I already loved all of Dominic Sandbrook's books so a captive audience really.

Birdwitted · 13/08/2022 07:03

I feel the same as @PacificState - I've listened about 10 times probably and never learnt much other than when they are talking about foreign affairs. Rory Stewart in general likes to think of himself as socially in a completely different camp to most of the conservative party which I suspect is where this is coming from. I know Campbell is not actually in the labour party at the moment, but I haven't heard anyone on the left say anything sensible about this issue for ages - although admittedly I am not following that closely. I find the podcast a bit boring so this is a reason to stop listening completely for me - I can't really get passed people who think like this on this issue as it's so indicative of me of a lack of critical thinking and just basic logic.

NecessaryScene · 13/08/2022 06:48

What is it with mature, politically experienced adults being infatuated with misrepresentations of some kind of pretend coherent "youth politics", in the context of capture by other "grown ups" at Stonewall and beyond?

It's another manifestation of the "identity politics" disease. Some vocal people within a group denote themselves the spokespeople for the group, and others feel they have to go along with it.

Anyone in the group with a different opinion doesn't really count.

It's also faulty reasoning/intuition. "Young people are more open to change" is true, but it doesn't follow from that that a change is good or will stick, or that any resistance is simply coming from lack of openness to change.

If a change is good, and can be shown to be good, then sure, those opposing it just due to resistance to change will fade away, and it can stick.

But with something like this, the more people are aware of it and see it in practice, the more resistance grows, everywhere. Most acceptance is coming from general openness to change (or trying to virtual signal openness to change), not actually considering it properly.

DworkinWasRight · 13/08/2022 06:45

If they don’t think the issue is important they should at least have the critical thinking skills to ask themselves why so many women are receiving death threats over it, losing their jobs, being booted off Twitter etc. Clearly some people think it’s very important.

tresleches · 13/08/2022 06:34

Thanks for starting this thread. I listen to the podcast to get back to sleep after 4am wakes, but instead I got the rage this morning. Though like others I felt steeled for this after Campbell said something like "young people should take over" a few weeks ago. What is it with mature, politically experienced adults being infatuated with misrepresentations of some kind of pretend coherent "youth politics", in the context of capture by other "grown ups" at Stonewall and beyond?

I feel better for knowing I wasn't the only one and have written an email to them (which I might even send - I work at a university so get the fear...)

TullyApplebottom · 12/08/2022 22:35

MaMaLa321 · 12/08/2022 20:16

I tried The Rest is History and gave up as it seemed to be 2 blokes rambling on and generally loving the sound of their own voices.

Doesn’t stop him being a pompous bore

TheMarzipanDildo · 12/08/2022 21:51

PacificState · 12/08/2022 18:31

I honestly find the podcast quite boring, and I'm a totally immersed politics buff. Neither of them say much of interest IMO except when they talk about overseas issues (which to be fair they are both better on than most British politicians) or the Northern Ireland situation which they both understand well. Campbell is astonishingly closed minded and predictable. Stewart, I suspect, is being a coward.

Agree with PP that if you want genuinely curious-minded intellectual courage, listen to Tom Holland on Rest is History. Totally different calibre of brain.

I bloody love the Rest is History.

MaMaLa321 · 12/08/2022 20:17

and I think that you'll find that RS still sees himself as Conservative

MaMaLa321 · 12/08/2022 20:16

I tried The Rest is History and gave up as it seemed to be 2 blokes rambling on and generally loving the sound of their own voices.

MaMaLa321 · 12/08/2022 20:14

I've listened now. It's so gratifying, as a gender critical woman, but be lumped in as a 'golf club bore' by fucking Alistair Campbell, isn't it?
And, as a previous poster said, I don't think RS can rise above wanting to be liked.
Such a shame, as I enjoy the podcast.
And the way they went on about how young people don't find all this a problem, and, as a problem, it will die out in a decade. So that's ok then is it?

tobee · 12/08/2022 20:10

Haven't listened to this but, considering posters are saying they abhor it being a political football that they've apparently decided to go down their political line (assuming Stewart is still a LibDem?) rather than bucked it.

Pro TRA = is left wing
GC = is right wing

is total bollocks invented and propagated by TRA for their own nefarious ends.

sauceyorange · 12/08/2022 19:44

Tom Holland's wife was my midwife :)

dunBle · 12/08/2022 19:42

@Mollyollydolly : "Same goes for 'Remainiacs' used to love it, but they are all the same on this issue too."

What, even Ian Dunt? Given how he always used to wang on about "objective reality", and he was quite supportive to Helen Lewis when she got booted off some computer game for her supposedly terfy views, that's disappointing.

PacificState · 12/08/2022 18:31

I honestly find the podcast quite boring, and I'm a totally immersed politics buff. Neither of them say much of interest IMO except when they talk about overseas issues (which to be fair they are both better on than most British politicians) or the Northern Ireland situation which they both understand well. Campbell is astonishingly closed minded and predictable. Stewart, I suspect, is being a coward.

Agree with PP that if you want genuinely curious-minded intellectual courage, listen to Tom Holland on Rest is History. Totally different calibre of brain.

GoodThinkingMax · 12/08/2022 17:19

I love this podcast so it’s really disappointing but I think it’s as @howdoesatoastermaketoast - no skin in the game. And they’ve not thought it through - that attitudes towards women’s rights tell us something about the general health of a society.