Golden Globes

To be fair, it was @Poppy101010 who called it ball room. I do agree that a space between words can change meaning profoundly!

Understood, I genuinely meant that I had learned something new (ballroom vs ball room).

I’m also reminded of the difference between trans woman and transwoman. I use the latter. Emphatically.

I do agree that a space between words can change meaning profoundly!

@SwissBall

Yes you’re completely right. Anna Paquin winning as a child is just like a transwoman winning

I think it would almost be preferable if someone just came on and said “yah boo sucks you’re a bunch of stinky bum terfs”. Rather than this toe-curlingly bad attempt at a “gotcha”.

Cringe.

Shambolic.

It's not called ball room culture, it's drag ball culture. It's not about ballroom dancing at all: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_culture

Dang. What a difference a simple space bar can make.

I’m all Team Punctuation Matters, but hadn’t realised there was a difference.

Cheers, @Clymene. Every day, school day, yadda…

[quote IvyTwines]@ShagMeRiggins as having a medical examination is one of the times when the sex of the person doing it can make a difference both in outcomes and the feeling of security and relaxation of the patient, I'd personally prefer it if we did still use sex-based words like 'doctress' in some circumstances.[/quote]
Fair enough. I’m happy with my preference, as you seem to be with yours, and don’t see any meaningful conflicts of rights or service delivery, despite different preferences in terminology.

Doctoress has never been a word in the UK. Feminists used the example of doctor as to why female actresses should be called actors, because female doctors are not called doctresses. Ditto sculptress, waitress, hostess. Women doctors often get "lady doctor" instead.

Maybe they can just half the award show lengths now and just go for "Best performance by a person" "Best supporting performance by a person" happy days.

2Rebecca - drag slang, it seems

www.dictionary.com/e/slang/sickening/

I'm confused about the winner saying it was a "sickening birthday present". Is a nauseating birthday present a good thing to Americans? If I said I was sickened or nauseated by a present I wouldn't be being positive about it.
I think awards ceremonies of all sorts books, films, theatre are getting themselves so tied up in diversity knots of trying to be fair and not upset anyone, rather than giving prizes to the best whatever it is that they are killing themselves off. Probably not a bad thing as these things are always subjective unless an obviously brilliant film, book etc is in the running.
I'm not sorry to see them disappear.
If a film's good people will go and see it. If no one wants to pay to see a film or play or buy a book then it's probably not that good no matter how many awards get thrown at it.
That doesn't mean the most popular one is the best, but the sort of "quality" that only a select few can recognise is usually just pretentiousness.

It's not called ball room culture, it's drag ball culture.

It's not about ballroom dancing at all: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_culture

I'm guessing you can't answer the 'what does living and going to work as a woman' statement mean question. It's not about agreeing to disagree. If you make statements, you should be able to back them up, otherwise they're just words.

I can say 'I'm a 20 year old 8 stone black supermodel from New York with a degree from Berkeley'. If you tell me that's horseshit, that's not us disagreeing, that's you calling me out on mendacity.

Which is what I'm doing.

The only way to 'live as a woman' is to be born female. That's it. That's the sole criterion. Everything else is offensive, sexist stereotypes.

And to the PP who said that awards like these have 'gendered' rather than sexed categories, pull the other one you absolute turnip. We have sexed categories because if we didn't, men would win EVERYTHING. The Oscar for best director is a mixed sex category, and do you know how many times a woman has won it in 94 years? TWICE.

So forgive us if we get a little bit pissy about a male being handed an award for women.

And ball room culture is not all about drag queens - it's aimed at the LGBTQ community

It’s been a long time since I saw my paternal grandparents (in their 70s or even 80s at the time) participate in a ballroom competition (it wonderful and simultaneously worrying), but…

I never perceived ballroom as being aimed at the ‘LGBTQ’ community.

I’m reasonably certain that samba, tango, waltz, quickstep, rumba, paso double, etc, weren’t aiming for the trans community either. Historically (and factually) speaking.

I believe you think that MJ Rodriguez delivered an exceptional performance, but retain the right of my opinion that MJ should not be in the Actress category.

I truly do not understand why you say Actress is a gendered (identity rather than sex) category. It has never been thus until very recently. It hasn’t been and shouldn’t be because it harms the arts.

Hence my reference to (female) Linda Hunt portraying a male winning awards as Best Supporting Actress, hence Cate Blanchett portraying Bob Dylan (male) being nominated in the Best supporting Actress category, hence Jared Leto (not a transwoman) winning an Academy Award for portraying a transwoman in the Best Supporting Actor category, hence Jaye Davidson (gay male portraying a transwoman) being nominated as Best Supporting Actor for The Crying Game).

By refusing to acknowledge biological sex (as you seem to prefer), we are refusing actors and actresses (and all writers, directors, etc) their rights to their creativity.

Russell T Davies (of Dr Who fame) has within recent memory suggested people should only be cast as who they are/identify (I don’t believe he thought through the long-term limitations on that one, but appreciate his point that it can possibly make a difference in terms of opening opportunities for gay men, lesbians, and transgender people to be cast). If this is the way forward, it’s limiting.

Dame Maureen Lippmann has been quoted recently saying Helen Mirren shouldn’t be portraying Golda Meir in an an upcoming film, because Mirren is not Jewish. How far are we taking the limitations for the arts? Film, stage, writing, etc?

For me—and I realise I’ve veered off the idea of feminism in a chaotic way—all the above are reasons I don’t support gender identity over biological sex, especially when it comes to acting, which is basically and often pretending to be someone you are not.

It is NOT TRUE that awards are gender categories rather than sex-based categories.

Sure, some things are changing and will still change. I accept that. But I reject your assertion. Anna Paquin was a girl—a biological female. No one thought she was an adult, everyone knew she was female — poor example from you.

Yes drag queens are part of the programme - but that's not all it's about. It's much deeper than just people dressing as the opposite sex.

And ball room culture is not all about drag queens - it's aimed at the LGBTQ community - with different categories for people to participate in.

Anyway - we can agree to disagree 🤷🏻‍♀️.

There may be supporting story lines but it's a show about drag culture. There's nothing wrong with that but why are you trying to pretend that it's not what it's about?

The point is that this role is not a role that is open to women. So it's a bit bloody weird that Rodriguez has won a best actress Golden Globe for it.

Transwoman = A man who identifies as a woman

So clearly not a woman

So wtf are they in the woman's category?

I don't really think the aim of this post was for me to explain any of this. Maybe google the definition of transwoman and you will get your answer.

But what does that mean?

If I do/don't identify as a woman what changes ?

It's not that you haven't explained it well
It's that you haven't explained at all

I was meaning that she identifies as being a woman. However I agree with PP that my choice of words probably wasn't the best and I didn't explain that very well.

I just don't have a problem with a transwomen winning an award for best actress 🤷🏻‍♀️. Like I said before, I think she deserved to win.

And no ... the programme Pose is much more than " being about drag queens ". It covers many topics - HIV outbreak , ball room culture , homophobia , racism etc .

Also, isn't Pose literally a show about drag queens? All the actors who play drag queens are biological men, however they identify.

So this actor is not 'going to work as a woman' surely as the role isn't open to women. Or am I missing something?

But she has went through the whole process of transitioning to a woman. Lives as a woman - and goes to work as a woman

I'd like to know what this means as well. How does one live as a woman and go to work as a woman?