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Original poster

Couldn’t make it. Scottish witches get pardon.

96 replies

MrsMadderRose · 20/12/2021 17:48

we’re so sorry we targeted women as witches

While right now women are being arrested and having “witch” screamed at them for thinking biological thoughts and not pretending to believe in magic Hmm

OP posts:
Griefmonster · 21/12/2021 11:26

What a grim take on this. Please anyone with an ounce of critical thinking look at the campaign, listen to the podcast and consider why your initial reaction would be so dismissive. I'm appalled.

ArabellaScott · 21/12/2021 09:51

I completely agree, OP. This is common with the Scotgov. Latch onto a showboat act that looks good but has no real impact or benefit. Then NS gets to claim she's a feminist while continuing to ignore, persecute and harm women through shoddy laws and poorly designed legislation.

KimikosNightmare · 21/12/2021 01:41

The history is of interest.

www.witchesofscotland.com/

There are 48 podcasts, on average 50 minutes long, which is almost twice the length of The World at War documentary series, so I think there might be a bit of padding. The witchcraft laws and trials were covered as part of the optional Scottish Legal History course in my degree.

This is interesting as it shows the Scottish tradition of married women keeping their own names. This isn't unique to criminal trials.

www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/resources/early-modern-witch-trials/scottish-witches/

I'm not keen on retrospective pardons and apologies for historic wrongs (by whom? to whom?). There was justification for it in the case of Alan Turing but here I think a statue or other memorial is enough.

Original poster
MrsMadderRose · 21/12/2021 01:12

I don’t actually have anything against the person campaigning for this, though I agree with some pps that these kinds of pardons are a bit silly, they matter to some people. What’s annoying me is the hypocrisy of the Scottish government in paying lip service to the idea that witch hunting was wrong and bad, while encouraging a modern equivalent and have a police force who enact sexist persecution of women for their views - women who are literally being called witches for holding views that are actually in line with the law.

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Griefmonster · 21/12/2021 00:34

I have Scottish family and a family member sent me the podcast. What the campaign is doing is fascinating and rooted in feminism.

I find it bizarre that a feminist board would be so critical of this campaign. Those of you scoffing would do well to read more about the campaign and the women behind it.

SantaClawsServiette · 21/12/2021 00:24

@dementedma

“No-one believes in witches now”

Really? There is a huge community of Wiccans and Pagans who very much accept “witches”

The really are not the same thing as the medieval idea of a witch.
DdraigGoch · 20/12/2021 23:22

@SantaClawsServiette

I have very little patience for these kinds of "pardons" or reversals of historic decisions, or even apologies. The level of meaninglessness involved is astronomical. No one really even believes in witches now. Nor is modern society and the state of the justice system we deal with really similar. Nor does it help anyone affected or even their descendants.

You might as well just make a statement that says, "Oh, by the way, we no longer believe in witches, plus due to historical circumstances those decisions were largely not carried out according to the appropriate legal procedures of the era."

Ok, so what?

This. Has any one person alive today benefited from this act of virtue signalling?
dementedma · 20/12/2021 21:05

“No-one believes in witches now”

Really? There is a huge community of Wiccans and Pagans who very much accept “witches”

GoGoGretaDoll · 20/12/2021 20:59

@PaleGreenGhost

I expect if feminists were to point out the glaring parallels we'd be accused of appropriation. And the Guardian would find a historian to declare that witches were probably actually non binary.
It was a few years ago on the hell site that is Twitter, but a reasonably well-known Scottish author did a whole furious rant of appropriation in response to a 'we are the daughters of the witches you did not burn' tweet. Same author is 100% TWAW. It actually opened my eyes to the whole thing. I just couldn't see why it's OK for a man to self ID as a woman, but a woman can't self ID as a witch.
PaleGreenGhost · 20/12/2021 20:51

I expect if feminists were to point out the glaring parallels we'd be accused of appropriation. And the Guardian would find a historian to declare that witches were probably actually non binary.

ArabellaScott · 20/12/2021 20:17

Re the pardon - IANAL but I understand if someone was found guilty then to pardon them officially is equivalent to saying they weren't guilty after all.

Agree that it largely seems a bit of a waste of time - although a memorial could be nice. The witch trials are a fascinating subject and the misogyny of James I/VI is perhaps worth studying more. If only people learned from the past.

RepentMotherfucker · 20/12/2021 20:09

@SantaClawsServiette

I have very little patience for these kinds of "pardons" or reversals of historic decisions, or even apologies. The level of meaninglessness involved is astronomical. No one really even believes in witches now. Nor is modern society and the state of the justice system we deal with really similar. Nor does it help anyone affected or even their descendants.

You might as well just make a statement that says, "Oh, by the way, we no longer believe in witches, plus due to historical circumstances those decisions were largely not carried out according to the appropriate legal procedures of the era."

Ok, so what?

IKR? Fucking virtue signalling wank.
OperationDessertStorm · 20/12/2021 19:32

It makes me wonder idly if women could ever get a case together for reparations for the years we were treated badly, smeared as witches, denied education, denied voting rights, right to property etc.

SantaClawsServiette · 20/12/2021 19:06

I have very little patience for these kinds of "pardons" or reversals of historic decisions, or even apologies. The level of meaninglessness involved is astronomical. No one really even believes in witches now. Nor is modern society and the state of the justice system we deal with really similar. Nor does it help anyone affected or even their descendants.

You might as well just make a statement that says, "Oh, by the way, we no longer believe in witches, plus due to historical circumstances those decisions were largely not carried out according to the appropriate legal procedures of the era."

Ok, so what?

Coyoacan · 20/12/2021 18:58

If they're pardoned, does that mean they were guilty?

I think that's it, how thoroughly shocking

Shewholovedthethebanhills · 20/12/2021 18:30

I just don’t get it. Are there different groups of people involved (politically)? Because the parallel just screams itself in your face. Or is it some kind of elaborate joke at our expense?

SweetGrapes · 20/12/2021 18:04

So going by this standard it will take about 400 years for today's witches to be pardoned (not that they need to be pardoned!)

An apology would be better suitable I would have thought.

ArabellaScott · 20/12/2021 18:03

While they're still bloody chasing women for wrongthink.

Original poster
MrsMadderRose · 20/12/2021 17:57

I guess they were guilty of the crime as defined at the time - being a witch according to a forced confession or test.

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Triphazards · 20/12/2021 17:50

If they're pardoned, does that mean they were guilty?

Original poster
MrsMadderRose · 20/12/2021 17:48

Make up I meant sorry! 🤦🏻‍♀️

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