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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mridul Wadhwa

133 replies

PostingForTheFirstTime · 21/09/2021 11:13

thecritic.co.uk/unclean/

"Feminist women were, therefore, keen to hear what would be said at this latest talk before women’s sector professionals working with victims and survivors of sexual and domestic abuse.

I hadn’t expected the content to be so blatantly aggressive towards the decades of work of feminist women in the field of male violence against women. After a wandering preamble about intersectionality, Wadhwa announced that Rape Crisis history was unclean."

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Jaysmith71 · 21/09/2021 14:54

As Renton said in Trainspotting (1996):

"Times Change. People Change. Soon, there'll be no men and no women. ....Just wankers."

Grellbunt · 21/09/2021 14:53

Don't get me wrong. Life can be great for women - some women. But there are still massive issues if you scratch the surface. Even for those of us who are relatively privileged (you can even make FM - if you play by the rules...). For many in poverty and in less tolerant communities life must be very difficult.

CreepingDeath · 21/09/2021 14:44

@Grellbunt

I am sickened at what is happening in Scotland. This is a country that, sadly, is still full of toxic masculinity, sexism and real vicious bigotry and hatred - but the Scottish Govt is in some kind of fantasy la la land where this is our biggest issue.
I lived in Scotland for several years and loved it. However, I agree with you, and it reminds me of Ireland in many ways - the push to promote ourselves as some liberal utopia by the government and media which doesn't reflect actual society.

Either ignoring or forgetting the deep rooted sexism and many ways in which women have been historically discriminated by the church and state.

I do think there is also the factor of Independence, and the need to show how Scotland can forge its own identity away from the UK. I see this in Ireland also, we are so quick to point out how we do things differently from England, with the inference being 'better'. It's nauseating.

Grellbunt · 21/09/2021 14:32

Especially as some of those women wouldn't even think of approaching a rape crisis centre in the first place, the violence and abuse they face is so endemic it probably wouldn't even occur to them that this isn't normal and that they deserve help and kindness themselves.

I'm so angry.

Grellbunt · 21/09/2021 14:29

Also having grown up around girls and women from some of the most deprived areas of Scotland, and having seen the sexual and physical violence, the lack of any respect and daily economic hardship they face I find it staggering that someone like this dares to call those girls and women "privileged".

futureghost · 21/09/2021 14:25

@Grellbunt

I am sickened at what is happening in Scotland. This is a country that, sadly, is still full of toxic masculinity, sexism and real vicious bigotry and hatred - but the Scottish Govt is in some kind of fantasy la la land where this is our biggest issue.
Well having lived in Scotland my whole adult life until recently, my view is that under the SNP government the goal has been to present Scotland as an enlightened utopia, so they would not want to admit there is sexism or toxic masculinity or bigotry. I have not doubt that NS has jumped on this as a way to showcase Scotland's 'progressive' credentials. Indeed in my letter to Joanna Cherry, the reply I got (from her office staff and apparently before she got her head around this issue) said that Scotland's goal was to be the most progressive country in the world on this issue. This is entirely about 'brand Scotland'.
Grellbunt · 21/09/2021 14:19

I am sickened at what is happening in Scotland. This is a country that, sadly, is still full of toxic masculinity, sexism and real vicious bigotry and hatred - but the Scottish Govt is in some kind of fantasy la la land where this is our biggest issue.

SapphosRock · 21/09/2021 14:02

I think what angers me the most is that rape survivors have likely already been lied to and gaslighted before they approach a rape crisis service. They have probably been told by their abuser and even friends and family that the rape was consensual sex or it never happened. Some will not have a single person who believes them or whom they can trust.

Rape survivors already need a very deep conviction that they are right and the perpetrators are wrong before they can even approach a female only recovery service.

To then have that female only service run by a male CEO and to have males welcomed into the group recovery sessions is additional trauma. I am not sure how many rape survivors are strong enough to keep the conviction that they are right and the perpetrators are wrong when they are being lied to by the very organisations that are supposed to help them.

ARoombaOfOnesOwn · 21/09/2021 13:31

Can someone tweet this to Deborah Frances White? It probably won’t change her mind though sadly.

futureghost · 21/09/2021 13:21

You have large groups of survivors, some are not using our services because they see us as trans inclusive and feeling that they may be exposed to… er… to an issue that they are not prepared to deal with

And look at the blaming and attacking language Mridul is using here.
Rape victims are not prepared to deal with. M. does not see that they are too traumatised to want to live with males, that they are too fearful, but that they are not willing to put in the work they would need to do ' deal' with this. It is clear M. is really contemptuous and angry with female rape victims. They are a blockage to M's utopia.

futureghost · 21/09/2021 13:14

On the plus side, Mridul is doing a very good job of illustrating how people who are born male cannot understand or empathise with women's experiences of males: particularly women who have been assaulted by males.

I can't think of a clearer example of why some jobs need to be reserved for female born and lived people than what Mridul has said in this interview.

SapphosRock · 21/09/2021 12:53

Yes indeed Fariha31

The problem with rape crisis services offering female only spaces to all 'self-identified' women is that people appear to have very different ideas about what being a woman is.

Fariha31 · 21/09/2021 12:46

@SapphosRock Yet none of these true believers seem to be able to explain how a man is a woman?

timeisnotaline · 21/09/2021 12:41

@Ozanj

Wadwha is a total waste of space.
This doesn’t cut it. A waste of space is useless- Mridul is actively causing harm.
DifficultBloodyWoman · 21/09/2021 12:40

I swear, if I had the money, I would start an ‘exclusive’ rape crisis centre in Scotland.

Women should never be in the position of needing to self exclude from support. The appropriate support (male free) should be available without question.

Artichokeleaves · 21/09/2021 12:36

@Jaysmith71

Can't help seeing the religious dimension to all this talk of cleaning and purifying, particularly in a Hindu context.
Its all deeply and very depressingly reminiscent to me of the Magdalen Laundries.

We saw there what zealots believed in for impure women who'd lost their rights.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 21/09/2021 12:30

Makes me sick that these males use all of their very male privilege and entitlement to tell us that our bodies, that they have been using forever to oppress us, are now a 'privilege' that we are using to oppress them!

The whole narrative is vile.

SapphosRock · 21/09/2021 12:28

@PostingForTheFirstTime

I just wonder what the health professionals who have to listen to this person actually think. The ones, that is, who are good-faith actors who want to provide a service for women in crisis.

Are they nodding along, going along with it, thinking this is what the future looks like now, we've got to progress. Or are they sitting there silently crying inside at the wrongness and the unfairness of it all?

Are there any health professionals reading this who can help me understand what they are thinking when they hear Wadwha's pronouncements, and who?

I wonder this too. Having spent a lot of time with TRAs all I can say is that lots of people truly, honestly and absolutely believe that trans women are women. They don't have the patience or capacity to entertain the idea that not everybody feels the same way.

KittenKong · 21/09/2021 12:10

So what’s the story with their husband and contracts?

Jaysmith71 · 21/09/2021 12:05

Can't help seeing the religious dimension to all this talk of cleaning and purifying, particularly in a Hindu context.

Artichokeleaves · 21/09/2021 12:01

There was a very distressing article by a rape survivor explaining how traumatic she found the whole 'service is unclean/these women need cleansing' phrasing. It's insensitive and tone deaf in the extreme when you are talking about women who had to sit in police suites, with the smell and filth of their attacker all over them for hours, unable to wash, unable to rinse their mouths, unable to change their clothes while evidence was taken.

This individual has shown a really appalling lack of regard, sensitivity or even basic awareness of what their basic job involves and to the females they are supposed to be serving.

Retraumatising female people in the name of a political agenda has no place in women's services. None.

OvaHere · 21/09/2021 11:50

The term 'unclean' brings to mind women and girls who are cast out of the community during menstruation because their bodies and bodily functions are 'unclean'.

SapphosRock · 21/09/2021 11:50

God I am so angry reading that article and I can feel Jean Hatchet's fury. It's unbelievable this is happening.

PostingForTheFirstTime · 21/09/2021 11:49

@PostingForTheFirstTime

I just wonder what the health professionals who have to listen to this person actually think. The ones, that is, who are good-faith actors who want to provide a service for women in crisis.

Are they nodding along, going along with it, thinking this is what the future looks like now, we've got to progress. Or are they sitting there silently crying inside at the wrongness and the unfairness of it all?

Are there any health professionals reading this who can help me understand what they are thinking when they hear Wadwha's pronouncements, and who?

why, not who.
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PostingForTheFirstTime · 21/09/2021 11:47

I just wonder what the health professionals who have to listen to this person actually think. The ones, that is, who are good-faith actors who want to provide a service for women in crisis.

Are they nodding along, going along with it, thinking this is what the future looks like now, we've got to progress. Or are they sitting there silently crying inside at the wrongness and the unfairness of it all?

Are there any health professionals reading this who can help me understand what they are thinking when they hear Wadwha's pronouncements, and who?

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