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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

16 yo DS called me a TERF

104 replies

Skatastic · 27/08/2021 09:12

He (formally she) came our as trans at the beginning of the year and we've done everything we can to support this. We call him his preferred pronouns, use his preferred name, listen to his woes.

Had a massive argument with him the other day and he called me a TERF. Other highlights were that when I said I don't want to be described as CIS I'm transphobic.

Another massive argument yesterday because I said I don't believe the 'trans women are women' rhetoric. He said well you don't believe I'm a man do you then? And the problem is no, I don't. I think he has serious mental health problems and this has all got tied up in trans stuff.

What the very fuck do I say? Is there a good way to say it? Why is he so fucking self righteous about it? Told me I can't have experienced any difficulties cos I'm a woman. Riiggghhhhtttt I must have dreamed those sexual assaults, sexism at work, being overlooked for promotions because I had to have time off for poorly children (him being one of them, oh the irony).

Not sure what I'm asking for. Solidarity?

OP posts:
JupesLoops · 27/03/2024 13:05

As someone who has been called a TERF (I’m not, I just think we should be able to have open and honest conversations about gender and we should have compassion for those who didn’t grow up in this sort of landscape) this thread is depressing. And full of TERF dog whistles. Just look at how many people are champing at the bit to tell you to show your mentally ill child how right they are. Those people don’t care about you or your child. They just an outlet for their rage. Im genuinely nervous to post this because I think people will. Not. Like.

OP think very carefully about where you’re getting your advice from. There are people in this thread happily encouraging you to abandon your child because they hate (the concept of, idk) trans people.

I’d also be very careful with how sure you are that they aren’t trans. My own mother is certain that I’m not autistic, although she can never explain why, she just feels it in her gut that I’m choosing to be naughty and always have. It’s severely damaged our relationship and my mental health. It’s stopped me from accessing medical care, it’s stopped me from being able to advocate for myself. Ironically she was the one who first came to me saying her therapist had said I sound autistic.

I think as a parent there can be a lot of emotional stuff tied into it, perhaps she feels she failed me by not noticing in childhood and it’s easier to stay in the story of “this child is naughty” because that’s far less painful than “my child needed help and instead I punished them and left them with permanent damage”

our brains do often lie to us to protect ourselves and “I know my child isn’t trans, they’re just sad” is a lot easier to believe than to question your relationship with gender and realise “oh fuck, I’ve spent a year/months undermining my child’s sense of self at a time when they needed me the most”

Also, I’m pretty sure cis is not a gender. Nobody is misgendering anyone. A cis woman is still a woman. A mother is still a mother. Trans people existing doesn’t threaten any of that.

The reception in this thread is exactly what your child is scared of. It’s very likely that they can sense you aren’t on board and they’re intuitively picking up that you feel like you’re humouring them when you’re not deadnaming them etc. they clearly don’t feel like they have full authentic support and that’s quite terrifying to a child.

especially in a society that is seeing continual erosion of trans rights.

women went through a liberation movement. Now we need to support others with theirs.

also, radical feminism is not the same as terf. Frankly most terfs I speak to know nothing of radical feminism and just enjoy the air of legitimacy that the term radical feminism adds to their crusade against trans people.

tldr. Support your child. If you’re right, you’ll still be right when they de transition. If you’re wrong, then you haven’t risked your relationship with your son.

read books about gender yourself. It’s easy to forget how fundamental this fight feels, we’re essentially the men in the feminist debate here. We are the default and part of the status quo. We don’t really understand and need to take steps to do so. From my Goodreads I have “I hope we choose love” and “undoing gender” on my list.

I also think you need to educate your son on feminism. Men are often crap at feminism. Reading as a family can be hard so maybe philosophy tube would be good. Abigail is a trans woman with a philosophy degree who talks wonderfully about feminism. If I was you I’d start with her video on the social contract, they’re beautiful and engaging and I think she could help you and your son find common ground.

This is lol said with love. I hope you and your family find peace.

lechiffre55 · 27/03/2024 11:30

Ask him if being trans has fixed his issues why is he still so angry?

RedToothBrush · 27/03/2024 11:28

Can he explain why he's NOT being sexist - without losing his temper or using gender stereotypes?

Abhannmor · 27/03/2024 11:26

IcakethereforeIam · 27/03/2024 09:42

If she's still reading I hope the OP and their child are in a better place now. Things can change a lot in over 2 years.

This. My friends son 'transitioned ' for about 18 months. New name , pronouns experiments with make up and clothing. His gf broke up with him, rather messily. Then it all stopped. His parents just rolled with it. Nobody saying ' we told you so'.
Life just went on as before....

WaterWeasel · 27/03/2024 09:51

.

IcakethereforeIam · 27/03/2024 09:42

If she's still reading I hope the OP and their child are in a better place now. Things can change a lot in over 2 years.

SinnerBoy · 27/03/2024 09:34

I'm sorry for you in your situation, Skatastic.

I haven't any advice, but second the ideas of trying to keep things calm and especially about everyone being entitled to their own beliefs and respecting other people's right to the same. There seem to be good books recommended, as well.

You have already decided that being Sergeant Major isn't going to work with a child with mental health problems, so ignore people advising that. Best not to even engage, in my opinion!

Tinaw60 · 27/03/2024 08:27

How are you now? How is the situation?

Skatastic · 30/08/2021 13:23

@Mango1982 we will absolutely 100% not be "supporting" our child with serious mental health problems to move out of home. At all. We love him and we will support him the best we can. Of course we tell him off for calling us names, but the only thing that we would achieve by making him move out would be to further reinforce the idea that nobody gives a shit about him.

I love the book ideas. I love educating myself and having sensible, rational responses to DS. When I'm not losing my temper and telling him to fuck off of course 😂

OP posts:
LemonSwan · 29/08/2021 15:18

I think books are actually a good idea.

I wouldnt buy a gendered one though.

As a woman transitioning to a male the last thing you want to do is bombard them with all the difficulties of being a woman. Deep down they know this already and is probably why they wish to transition.

Instead I would buy a set of George Orwells for Christmas so it doesnt look unusual - Animal Farm, 1984 and Keep the Aspidistra Flying

Mango1982 · 29/08/2021 08:35

PurgatoryOfPotholes

I think you should buy Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez. why should she buy a book she needs to tell her daughter stop speaking to me like that this moment and if your unable to at 16 we will support you to move out one should not need to buy a book the issue here is not what daughter is calling her mother it’s the fact she shouting anything at her she’s not 4 op needs to put her foot down at 16 you don’t get to swear or call me names in my own house 😂

StrangeLookingParasite · 29/08/2021 08:15

@beigebrownblue

TERF

Stands for Transexclusionary radical feminist.

How absolutely patronising and uninformed your post is, NIceGerbil.

Radical Feminist was and is a term which women used to self identify themselves when feminists movements were progressing in the nineteen eighties.

How OLD are you, NiceGerbil?

This is relevant.

Your explanation of this is completely without meaning.

Women (not men) are still being discriminated against across the globe.

Women need to make progress re equality and are across the globe are still fighting for survival never mind equality.

Mothers, are mothers.

AND are being discriminated against across the board.

you are brainwashed.

Brainwashed.

Oh dear.
theemperorhasnoclothes · 28/08/2021 11:38

With all the media coverage of Afghanistan, including the women writing about how many of their co-workers are now laughing at their plight, I find it stunning that any young person can be ignorant as to historic and current misogyny and discrimination against women, and how our rights are often paper thin and can be taken away so quickly.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/18/afghan-woman-working-western-ngo-kabul-forgotten

Aparallaxia · 27/08/2021 23:31

Thank you OP that reply made me laugh! 'I'm the only trans in the village, why is no-one attacking me?'

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 27/08/2021 22:52

I think you should buy Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez. Not so you can discuss it with your child (I think at the moment it is far too fraught a situation for discussion to lead anywhere positive), but because it's a book of factual solidarity, telling you that you haven't been imagining being disadvantaged by your sex.

LobsterNapkin · 27/08/2021 22:42

In a lot of cases I think kids in this position will simply take whatever line you've drawn, and push it. So there is not really a reasonable compromise. The best bet is to draw the line where you think it really ought to be. For my, that was, you can wear whatever you want as long as it isn't actually inappropriate, but you can change your name when you are legally old enough, I won't fool around with pronouns, and it's inappropriate to ask others to as well.

I can defend those ideas because they represent what I really think, and I guess I might as well plant my flag there then try and defend a compromise I already think is silly.

That being said, I think the technique of disengaging is very useful. I'd be trying to focus on the other MH issues.

Skatastic · 27/08/2021 22:27

@Mollyollydolly I'm on a mailing list about life in the Outer Hebrides and I often think we would be better off there!

OP posts:
Mollyollydolly · 27/08/2021 22:16

I really feel for you. I've nothing to offer really re advice. Just struck me that if you could removed people from their social circle, the internet, and all the crap their young brains are constantly assaulted with that all these issues would go away. If only you could transport them away from all the social pressure, a few months in the countryside living a peaceful life. Sorry, I realise this is impossible, just thinking aloud. Good luck with it all.

Waitwhat23 · 27/08/2021 22:15

I'm a bit Confused at someone who had to Google what TERF means, telling NiceGerbil that she's brainwashed!

The vast majority of posters on this board vehemently disagree with being called terfs. It is in fact a horrendous slur - www.terfisaslur.com. The term TERF (a banned term on Mumsnet) is thrown at women who do not believe that males should be able to access female single sex spaces.

There is a wide range of variation on what women on the two Feminist boards define themselves as - some say GC feminist, some say radical feminist, others are literal feminists. Some just say feminist as they don't believe that there needs to be a qualifier.

We all believe women are discriminated against.

leavesthataregreen · 27/08/2021 22:02

DS1 called me a TERF at that age. I explained for a VERY long time how hard won women's rights were and how fragile they still are as they hang in the balance and he's had the good grace to say he understood a bit better and now keeps quiet at certain times during LGBTQ+ meetings.

NiceGerbil · 27/08/2021 21:56

I'm in my late 40s. Why do you ask?

NiceGerbil · 27/08/2021 21:55

Huh?

What's the problem here?

The term is not just used for those who have radical feminist politics.

beigebrownblue · 27/08/2021 21:53

TERF

Stands for Transexclusionary radical feminist.

How absolutely patronising and uninformed your post is, NIceGerbil.

Radical Feminist was and is a term which women used to self identify themselves when feminists movements were progressing in the nineteen eighties.

How OLD are you, NiceGerbil?

This is relevant.

Your explanation of this is completely without meaning.

Women (not men) are still being discriminated against across the globe.

Women need to make progress re equality and are across the globe are still fighting for survival never mind equality.

Mothers, are mothers.

AND are being discriminated against across the board.

you are brainwashed.

Brainwashed.

NiceGerbil · 27/08/2021 21:30

Terf means those who believe that sex is important. For a host of things.
Although most of the population know that, it's a term used for women pretty much all the time. And also pretty much all the time women who are interested in women's rights.

Oh and also it's often teamed with SWERF which is used for people, again almost always women who are interested in women's rights. Who have a range of concerns about the negative consequences of prostitution. And do not agree that it's a job like any other eg working in an office as an accountant.

beigebrownblue · 27/08/2021 21:22

I've just googled it.

trans-exclusionary radical feminist

No. No. No.

there is no such thing.

A radical feminist was defined thirty years ago.
By many authors.

Let's have a conversation about that.

A radical feminst was in to and still believes in

WOMEN'S LIBERATION.

Yes. And.

Women still need it.
ThIs is US being discriminated against economically and every other which way,

much worse under pandemic.

We need WOMENS LIBERATION MORE THAN EVER.