Ireland..you could not make this up

I have to correct the age I stated in the second referendum! The proposed reduced age was 21, not 18. Still No though! Also, still in the booklet.

Cailleach that's fantastic detectiving.

Going on what TRAs state on Twitter etc, I though self-ID had been little subsection of the same-sex marriage referendum. And that I hadn't paid enough attention (not that that's an excuse- if that had happened, the Referendum Commission would be on the hook for not correctly informing people).

I think I am as well if not better informed on this topic, than most people in my personal circle.
So, if I have made that mistake, where did that come from?
Mis-information.
By whom?

Is that nearly every day different people (mostly women?) have given insightful opinions on this awful law that was snuck in under the radar?

O'Toole hasn't even lived in Ireland for a decade so it's mystifying that she's called on to offer her opinion on how self-id is going. Her feminism has something to do with not shaving her armpits because no-one ever did that before.

Maybe O'Toole was a secret saboteur.

The question on same sex marriage in the referendum had as much to do with self-id as the question on the lowering of the age for presidential candidates. Nothing.

The Referendum of 22nd May, 2015 had just two questions in relation to two amendments to the constitution. One was on same sex marriage, and the other was on reducing the age of candidacy for president.

Thirty fourth amendment to the constitution: Marriage may be contracted in accordance with law by two persons without distinction as to their sex. 62.07 YES.

Thirty fifth amendment to the constitution: Every citizen who has reached his thirty-fifth year of age is eligible for election to the office of President. 73.06% NO. (it had proposed to reduce the age from 35 to 18).

Handy information booklet and all by the referendum commission:
www.fedvol.ie/_fileupload/Easy%20to%20read/RefCom_Indepedent%20Guide_DSI_FINAL.pdf

Self-ID wasn't part of the referendum questions. The Gender Recognition Act was passed by the Irish Government on July 15th 2015. Not by popular vote.

womansplaceuk.org/2020/07/13/gender-recognition-ireland/

Yes, Fiona. I personally would have that view. My parents would have read the Independent or the Examiner. The only article I can recall the Examiner having was an opinion piece by Louise O"Neill denouncing JKR for her transphobia . I don't recall the death and rape threats directed towards JKR being commented on in the article.
The Independent has touched on the topic but nothing in depth.
Journal.ie has a transactivist as a regular contributor.
But I think the Times would be the paper most respected by the woketati, so it is heartening to see the letters and comments that show strong pushback.

Yes, good letters in the IT this morning.
Needs to get out to a wider audience now- the IT is still seen as a bit elitist in some corners.

Letters to the editor about Iseult White's opinion piece

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/stopping-the-trans-rights-culture-war-1.4513067

The IT seem to be finally discovering that their are differing opinions on this and that all is not hunky dory in the land of self ID

<a class="break-all" href="http://archive.today/2021.03.18-020044/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HomeToVote" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">archive.today/2021.03.18-020044/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HomeToVote

No one wants to be an irrelevant unsexy middle aged woman..
I'm convinced that's why so many people are jumping on the trans band wagon. Aligning themselves with da yoof because youth is what gets the kudos. It's the same old shite as was ever there.
But life experience counts, and 19 year olds generally dont have it yet, and a mature adult doesn't need their validation.

It's all a bit, How do you do, fellow kids.

DCB doesn't fancy us

But is weirdly obsessed with us. Loves having a go at Mumsnet, vile hags that we are.

Thanks.
Hard to keep it all in line

So AM is the American male borned person who moved to Ireland to Irish women not to listen to English women?.

If AM was not so viciously cruel towards women...

Excellent find XXSex

This is an extract from a blog on gender gp from aoife Martin. Comparing the success of same sex marriage and then the stealth of self Id. Show them this the next time someone says that EVERYONE knew about it.

"Lesbians and gay men had to go to the people to ask in a referendum if same-sex couples could marry but our politicians decided on their own to abandon biology as the signifier of maleness and femaleness in Ireland and replace it with the concept of “gender”, which is not defined anywhere in the legislation." (from Joan's letter)

Yes.

And then three years later women had to go begging for bodily autonomy.

Which involved persuasion and debate despite the indignity of it.

'No debate' was not an option in either of these cases and to tell Irish women of a liberal persuasion that it should be is incredibly tone-deaf and offensive.

Some good comments on the Iseult article. The silent majority are starting to wake up to what is going on.

miri thanks for the links to both the article and Jean's letter. Applause to both.

As Iseult says "The profoundly challenging work of compassion is to find compassion for the people with whom you disagree".
T'was ever thus.
To sympathise and attempt to understand someone with whom you disagree - it's hard work, and requires maturity and reflection. Not much of which is evident on social media.

Growing up, I would have thought that Lydia Foy was an unusual case. As a young adult, I would have thought "what's the harm" in allowing her to change her documentation and be recognised by the State as being female.
As an older adult, I wonder about her wife and daughters.....

When I stand back from the toxicity of the "trans rights" discourse, I feel sad for people who are so uncomfortable with the sex of their body, that they feel the need to change their gender.
In the same way that I feel compassion for someone who has lost a limb and seeks to use a prosthesis.

I can simultaneously (because I am a thoughtful adult) hold in mind, the need for safety and dignity for women.

[quote miri1985]In todays IT, an opinion piece from Iseult White and a letter to the editor about self ID being brought in by stealth

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/transphobic-terf-or-sex-traitor-this-trans-rights-culture-war-must-stop-1.4512119

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/lobbying-for-gender-recognition-1.4512174[/quote]
Excellent letter from Jean. That sums it up 100% accurately.