Debbie and Stephanie Hayton interview transcript

Unless you’re not making a point about women here being pearl clutching prudes, and are actually making a rather more obscure one around assertive dog training.

yes I was puzzled at that!

Bold fail- first paragraph of last post is quoting @Al77

But mainly I think It's just not strategic (and it is unkind...which is not a good strategy either). Fully accepting with open arms post op transexuals, is a virtually cost free concession

Just checking Al77 if you know anything at all about Trans Widows?

I agree it is a total copout, but by not mentioning toilets at all and making excluding males the exception not the rule and insisting on a case by case handling

This "case by case" isn't in the EA, it was added in guidance after pressure from TRAs. It's also ambiguous as to whether it means individual situations rather than individual trans people. The EA mentions blanket situations such as the possibility of requiring applicants for the job of rape counsellor to be biologically female, even excluding males with GRC, to avoid women being further traumatised. The sex based exemptions are used all the time to keep men out of female spaces and services, not on a "case by case" basis, and MTF trans people without a GRC are legally men for the purpose of the EA.

I think you’re thinking of Mary Whitehouse there, Al, not Barbara Woodhouse.

Unless you’re not making a point about women here being pearl clutching prudes, and are actually making a rather more obscure one around assertive dog training.

A177 - that's not a position that we would support as being in the best interests of women in prison, based on the large body of evidence concerning their needs.

It is also not a position that is supported in law. The EA single-sex exceptions permit ALL MALES, including those with protected characteristic gender reassignment, to be excluded from single-sex spaces for women.

Here I note that the EA defines 'woman' in terms of sex. I also note that the GRA provides legal mechanisms to enable individuals to obtain legal recognition of acquired gender. There is no assumption that individuals have thereby changed sex and provisions within the GRA that permit individuals to be treated as members of the sex that they remain, notwithstanding legal recognition of acquired gender, makes that clear.

But mainly I think It's just not strategic (and it is unkind...which is not a good strategy either). Fully accepting with open arms post op transexuals, is a virtually cost free concession in the "land grab" which is well underway (and not just in theory).

I disagree. Treating men who have surgeries as women is neither kind nor progressive. Women and 'eunuchs' - really?!

Glad to see many more catching on

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3605090-Boundaries-and-Allies

I suppose if one views this paraphilia as being the sum total that 'woman' actually is, then it is not a problem. And neither is anything else.

Article by Genevieve Gluck published yesterday by Graham Linehan,
'Sissy porn, the gender movement's dirty secret
Pornography’s Influence on Transgenderism and The Proliferation of Sissy Hypno on Social Media'
(ends)

"Recent studies have shown that pornography can hijack the brain’s dopamine reward center. As pornography results in sharp bursts of dopamine, the brain develops tolerance to the content, requiring more shocking media to elicit the same thrill. As a result, pornography can lead to sexual dysfunctions and depression. In addition, there is some research to suggest that consuming pornography can lead to body dysmorphic disorder (BDD), and in particular, penis dysmorphia among men. Given that gender dysphoria is a type of BDD that is characterized by unease with primary and secondary sexual characteristics, it follows that pornography can distort self-perception and reasonably be assumed to induce gender dysphoria, rather than simply drawing out a pre-existing condition.

It used to be taken as undisputed fact that the media we consume can shape our minds and behavior. Yet, as our lives become ever more media-saturated, our ability to think critically about its impact on identity and selfhood have been constrained and often reduced to individual, rather than societal, observations. We must therefore consider the recent extreme popularity of claiming a transgender identity as connected to the tremendous rise in online streaming pornography and its accessibility. The phenomenon and trend is too great to ignore."
grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/sissy-porn-the-gender-movements-dirty

I can’t imagine any circumstances at all where it’s ok for women to be locked up with autogynephiles.

I suppose if one views this paraphilia as being the sum total that 'woman' actually is, then it is not a problem. And neither is anything else.

These (mostly) male doctors actually assumed the role of gatekeepers to female single sex spaces & proceeded to open them up to their male patients, some of whom were known to be driven by paraphillias.

I can’t imagine any circumstances at all where it’s ok for women to be locked up with autogynephiles.

There's a persistent idea that Dr Barrett and other gender identity specialists are gatekeepers who can and will protect women

The male doctors who are described as gatekeepers of the desired surgeries and/or hormones tasked their male patients with using female spaces whilst performing sexist stereotypes & provided them with permission letters in case of challenge.

These (mostly) male doctors actually assumed the role of gatekeepers to female single sex spaces & proceeded to open them up to their male patients, some of whom were known to be driven by paraphillias.

I’m still chewing over James Barrett’s lofty proclamations.

We’re often accused of “nutpicking”, meaning that we supposedly pick the outliers from this movement to illustrate the points we’re trying to make, and roundly admonished for so doing because they’re “not typical” or “not representative” or whatever. But Barratt is speaking here as a professional, a clinician, someone who we are to presume has expertise in the field, and he’s talking about women as disposable, slightly objectionable props to be utilised in a rapists quest for self actualisation, with no thought for what is best for them.

Blimey. It explains a lot.

Are they really treating female inmates as some kind of horrific experiment, where if they emerge unscathed from exposure to a violent sex offender, he gets a treat?

On release Jones was invited to the House of Lords.

27th February 2018 Daily Mail
"EXCLUSIVE: Transgender activist jailed for killing her boyfriend and trying to rape shop assistant five days after being released from prison is invited to speak at HOUSE OF LORDS
Karen Jones is a transgender activist who was born as a man called Mark Jones
Ms Jones, 34, from Leeds, was convicted of manslaughter after strangling her partner
Five days after being released in 2002, Jones brutally assaulted a female shop assistant after gagging her mouth with a lemon and trying to rape her
She was invited to launch a review on transgender people in the criminal justice system in the House of Lords" (continues)
(image from article)
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5440153/Trans-convict-invited-speak-House-Lords.html

previous threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3180059-To-think-if-youve-killed-raped-women-we-dont-give-a-flying-fuck-what-you-think-on-any-given-matter

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3192486-Lord-Patel-Karen-Jones-thread-anyone-want-to-go-to-House-of-Lords-to-talk-to-Lord-Patel

*Jones' inability to cope, obvs.

Apologies, jumping language constantly through hoops is extremely hard to do.

The male centric language there is boggling.

If Jones is able to cope with proximity -

What the female people can 'cope' with appears to be of no interest to anyone, nor what their abilities might be after Jones has finished demonstrating his inability to cope with their enforced proximity to Jones by attacking them.

Yes.

Women of that sort...

It strikes me that with this ideology, there must be a distinction between the sexes so that one can become the other.

At the same time, there must no distinction between the sexes so that one can become the other.

Prisons illustrate this contradiction rather well.

If this patient is able to cope with protracted close proximity women of that sort I would judge her able to cope with the less prolonged, more avoidable, travails of the civilian world."

What does this even mean?

That if Jones can stop himself from attacking 'uncivilised' expendable women, in prison, then it might confidently demonstrate that he could refrain from attacking women outside prison?

Are they really treating female inmates as some kind of horrific experiment, where if they emerge unscathed from exposure to a violent sex offender, he gets a treat?