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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Times 'Lib Dem trans activists ‘hounded’ abuse victim (Natalie Bird)''.Article refers to Zoe O'Connell & Sarah Brown

338 replies

R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 09:40

article by Lucy Bannerman
(extract)
"A victim of domestic abuse was removed as a judge of a radical thinking prize and “hounded” out of her role within the Liberal Democrats for saying that she did not believe that men who identified as women should have access to women’s refuges.

Natalie Bird, 38, a mother of two who fled an abusive former partner, was accused of “dangerous transphobia” by transgender activists in the party. She had said that opening up safe spaces without proper safeguards to anyone who said that they were female could put women at risk.

She opposed segregating women’s refuges by chosen gender instead of biological sex, and said that it was not fair to make female victims of domestic violence, abuse and rape share services with people with “functioning” male anatomy.

After being allegedly bullied on social media by party activists, Ms Bird was brought before a disciplinary hearing to face a complaint in the name of Zoe O’Connell, on behalf of the LGBT+ Liberal Democrats. The correspondence says that Ms Bird had “expressed troublesome views”.

The hearing found no evidence to support the complaint of transphobia, but Ms Bird lost her position as chairwoman of the Radical Association, made up of party members, following a vote of no confidence. This cost her her role as a judge of the Ashdown Prize for Radical Thought; an ironic move, Ms Bird said, given that the prize’s aim was to reward “big, bold, radical” solutions to society’s most “daunting problems . . . no one has the courage to argue for” (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lib-dem-trans-activists-hounded-abuse-victim-b6dx39tv3

Hopefully many LibDem Members will stand in support of Natalie Bird.

O'Connell and Brown make a mockery of the LibDem priciples and their bullying abusive behaviour has been allowed to run unchecked within the party.

The Liberal Democrats exist to build and safeguard a fair, free and open society, in which we seek to balance the fundamental values of liberty, equality and community, and in which no one shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity. We champion the freedom, dignity and well-being of individuals, we acknowledge and respect their right to freedom of conscience and their right to develop their talents to the full. We aim to disperse power, to foster diversity and to nurture creativity. We believe that the role of the state is to enable all citizens to attain these ideals, to contribute fully to their communities and to take part in the decisions which affect their lives.

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SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 17:00

R0wantrees I and every member of the Liberal Democrats I have ever met interprets our preamble to be in total and complete support with trans rights. You and Natalie might see your selves as rejecting conformity by being edgy and "gender critical", but your values contract the fundamental principles of liberty, equality and community and certainly aren't compatible with championing the freedom, dignity and well-being of individuals. Natalie was binned from her job because she was bad at it and had values which didn't fit with the organisation. If you don't like it, set up your own version of RA thats gender critical, but thats what democracy is.

JoanSummers · 19/10/2018 17:00

Which rule of misogyny is it that "when someone shows you who they are, believe them"?

Sarah Brown, all their chums here and elsewhere - you've shown us who you are. We believe our own eyes and our own ears.

What was the phrase Brown used? "Get in the sea"?

A bit more threatening from Sarah Brown who owns a yacht and has a proven record of hatred and abusive behaviour, for sure.

OlennasWimple · 19/10/2018 16:59

"renegotiated the bounds of the existing relationship" - that summarises what has been happening over the last few years at the societal level, as well in in individual cases (except it was renegotiated without our consent or even awareness...)

Sometimes DH carries my handbag if I've got my hands full with other stuff, and he will happily go and buy sanpro for me. Does this mean that our relationship is "a bit lesbian" as well?

Datun · 19/10/2018 16:59

But you think someone is transphobic for saying a person of or denoting the sex that produces sperm, is also of or denoting the sex that bears eggs.

QuietContraryMary · 19/10/2018 16:58

So I had a quick look on FB, the Radical Association supporters group has these admins:

Luke Graham (seen above)
George Potter (- twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=from%3Ageorgewpotter%20trans&src=typd
Ross Stalker - twitter.com/search?f=tweets&q=from%3Aross_stalker%20trans&src=typd
James Baillie - twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=from%3AJubalBarca%20trans&src=typd

So four men with identical viewpoints.

How very progressive.

TheHarpySings · 19/10/2018 16:58

I think it’s worth analysing SorosPaysMe’s comments through the lens of Bunbury.

SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 16:56

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 16:55

Idk where you get the idea that I want anyone here's, or more importantly anyone who backs Natalie, vote. I don't. Go vote UKIP or something, or the greens if they go full transphobe, cos they are the only parties backing your vile anti trans agenda. Or maybe the National Front/BNP/EDL or whatever its called these days will back you as well.

SorosPaysMe

I am a member of the Liberal Democrats.
I understand what being liberal and democratic means.

Your comment to LangCleg does not suggest you have any meaningful understanding of the the key principle:

The Liberal Democrats exist to build and safeguard a fair, free and open society, in which we seek to balance the fundamental values of liberty, equality and community, and in which no one shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity. We champion the freedom, dignity and well-being of individuals, we acknowledge and respect their right to freedom of conscience and their right to develop their talents to the full

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Datun · 19/10/2018 16:55

Go vote UKIP or something, or the greens if they go full transphobe, cos they are the only parties backing your vile anti trans agenda. Or maybe the National Front/BNP/EDL or whatever its called these days will back you as well.

Good lord.

This whole ideology is supported by children.

JoanSummers · 19/10/2018 16:54

@sorospaysme
No comment on Sarah Brown's behaviour as evidenced on this thread?

I won't believe a thing you or your chums have to say until you acknowledge Sarah Brown's misogyny and lesbophobia, and their abuse and harassment of women and transsexuals online. If you can't be honest enough to address that why should we give any credence to what you have to say at all? Why should we especially have any time for what any of you have to say about women or a specific woman? Your actions reveal you.

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 19/10/2018 16:54

Trans women are trans women. Trans women are adult human males

This cannot be repeated enough.

Tranwomen are not women.

Women do not have penises.

Women are adult human females.

NoseringGirl · 19/10/2018 16:53

I don't think Soros came here to be believed. Soros appears to just want to tell us how wrong we all are and try to insult us into agreeing with them.

FatherBuzzCagney · 19/10/2018 16:50

You must be able to give an example of her alleged transphobia, if it was one of the reasons you voted her out. I can remember examples of Sarah Brown's inadequacies as a local councillor from the best part of a decade ago, which is why I don't vote Lib Dem in this ward. If you can't give any specifics then you really can't expect anyone to believe you.

TwistedStitch · 19/10/2018 16:49

Soros you sound like a religious fanatic.

pennydrew · 19/10/2018 16:49

Thats certainly your opinion, but it is one that has no basis in reality

😂😂😂😂 I had to laugh at that comment... from someone who thinks trans women are women 😬

Woman: Adult Human Female.

MonsterSister · 19/10/2018 16:47

Soros, how on earth can you post with a straight face 'There is an astonishing level of misinformation on this thread ' and then add 'Trans women are adult human females'?

No, they aren't. That's not a criticism, just a fact.

deepwatersolo · 19/10/2018 16:44

SorosPaysMe So what you are saying is that no other parties than Front/BNP/EDL, UKIP and possibly the Greens in the future represent the will of the overwhelming majority of the people on this issue of women's rights?
Don't you think this is a troubling sign of technocratic elite rule?

QuietContraryMary · 19/10/2018 16:42

SorosPaysMe I don't know who you are, but given Luke Graham's post, which I linked above:

"I see the Radical Association has been name dropped on Mumsnet. So allow me to say very loudly. Trans Woman are Woman, Trans Men are Men, and transphobes of any stripe are not welcome in our organisation. If you don't believe me just ask my predecessor!"

he's sending out the message very clearly 'she was removed because she was a "transphobe"'.

For you to come here and say 'oh actually it was other that I'm not going to go into' is therefore a little difficult.

The fact that 66 people (or whatever it was) in your group voted to kick her out doesn't really tell us anything at all. I mean all available data suggests that the Lib Dems are full of TRAs, so there's nothing here which goes to contradict the impression that she was kicked out for being gender-critical.

SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 16:40

LangCleg Idk where you get the idea that I want anyone here's, or more importantly anyone who backs Natalie, vote. I don't. Go vote UKIP or something, or the greens if they go full transphobe, cos they are the only parties backing your vile anti trans agenda. Or maybe the National Front/BNP/EDL or whatever its called these days will back you as well.

Sarahconnor1 · 19/10/2018 16:39

SorosPaysMeyou may well be in a Radical Association but there is nothing liberal or democratic about this group of members of the LIbDem party

This, this and this.

SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 16:39

R0wantrees Thats certainly your opinion, but it is one that has no basis in reality. The party is entirely democratic, with internal elections,. democratic policy discussions on positions to take, and the ability to remove office holders if the membership doesn't want them anymore. That is a core and important democratic principle.

As how liberal they are, we clearly have very different ideas of liberalism. These people are great liberals and radicals who don't hold prejudices and hatred towards trans people and their rights like Natalie does. A incidentally disagree with most of them on many libdem internal policy discussions, but the idea they aren't liberal is laughable.

LangCleg · 19/10/2018 16:38

SorosPaysMe

And you think that makes us more or less likely to vote for the LibDems?!

Good grief. Do you people want any votes?

R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 16:38

Yes I think so, it happened once before.

The same happens if an issue is brought up in LibDem SM groups. Very quickly the same names appear, people are ganged up on.

Very manipulative, and effective.

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NoseringGirl · 19/10/2018 16:36

Soros why are you assuming I have a personal agenda? I'm just interested in why you're making accusations about an individual on a public forum when you can't back them up. We're going round in circles though so I'm going to leave that there.

BigotedWoman · 19/10/2018 16:35

Do these people and their minions have Google alerts on their own name?