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Original poster

Times 'Lib Dem trans activists ‘hounded’ abuse victim (Natalie Bird)''.Article refers to Zoe O'Connell & Sarah Brown

338 replies

R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 09:40

article by Lucy Bannerman
(extract)
"A victim of domestic abuse was removed as a judge of a radical thinking prize and “hounded” out of her role within the Liberal Democrats for saying that she did not believe that men who identified as women should have access to women’s refuges.

Natalie Bird, 38, a mother of two who fled an abusive former partner, was accused of “dangerous transphobia” by transgender activists in the party. She had said that opening up safe spaces without proper safeguards to anyone who said that they were female could put women at risk.

She opposed segregating women’s refuges by chosen gender instead of biological sex, and said that it was not fair to make female victims of domestic violence, abuse and rape share services with people with “functioning” male anatomy.

After being allegedly bullied on social media by party activists, Ms Bird was brought before a disciplinary hearing to face a complaint in the name of Zoe O’Connell, on behalf of the LGBT+ Liberal Democrats. The correspondence says that Ms Bird had “expressed troublesome views”.

The hearing found no evidence to support the complaint of transphobia, but Ms Bird lost her position as chairwoman of the Radical Association, made up of party members, following a vote of no confidence. This cost her her role as a judge of the Ashdown Prize for Radical Thought; an ironic move, Ms Bird said, given that the prize’s aim was to reward “big, bold, radical” solutions to society’s most “daunting problems . . . no one has the courage to argue for” (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lib-dem-trans-activists-hounded-abuse-victim-b6dx39tv3

Hopefully many LibDem Members will stand in support of Natalie Bird.

O'Connell and Brown make a mockery of the LibDem priciples and their bullying abusive behaviour has been allowed to run unchecked within the party.

The Liberal Democrats exist to build and safeguard a fair, free and open society, in which we seek to balance the fundamental values of liberty, equality and community, and in which no one shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity. We champion the freedom, dignity and well-being of individuals, we acknowledge and respect their right to freedom of conscience and their right to develop their talents to the full. We aim to disperse power, to foster diversity and to nurture creativity. We believe that the role of the state is to enable all citizens to attain these ideals, to contribute fully to their communities and to take part in the decisions which affect their lives.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
Trousered · 19/10/2018 17:31

So the charming Soros writes:

"put it in terms you lot will hopefully be able to comprehend"

Every person that arrives to lecture and harangue woman for wrong think always describes us at "you lot".

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 19/10/2018 17:30

People who claim to think that trans women are female just sound lying or deluded to me.
Every single baby that has ever been born has resulted from two gametes, a male and a female one, produced by a man and a woman, and gestated in the woman. Biology. It exists.

Datun · 19/10/2018 17:29

No, because trans women are also adult human females.

Absolutely barking, yes of course.

But so blatantly abusive that you must be a very troubled man indeed.

Original poster
R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 17:28

What the fuck is happening in politics at the moment?

Johnny Mercer said 'shit show'

I think I agree with Johnny.

OP posts:
JoanSummers · 19/10/2018 17:28

"Sarah, if that's you"

Clearly it is.

"on reflection, you can't be Sarah Brown because you've been much too polite"

People with Cluster B personality disorders are often able to mask themselves for a short time.

I wouldn't call their behaviour here polite though. It's libellous, condescending, juvenile and manipulative.

FatherBuzzCagney · 19/10/2018 17:28

No, because trans women are also adult human females

Trans women are adult human males. That has no bearing whatever on their right to be treated with respect and dignity, not discriminated against. But they are not adult human females.

Trousered · 19/10/2018 17:27

If you don't agree with that then you are at odds with our fundamental values.

This is I getting weirder. So you are fundamentalist believers and everyone has to have identical fundamental beliefs or they are terrible people. And this is radical? Blimey. Radical means the opposite of rigid conformity under duress, I hope you manage to learn that before your hypocrisy does any more damage.

deepwatersolo · 19/10/2018 17:26

No, because trans women are also adult human females.

Prove it. Define trans, define woman define female. I am waiting.

ZuttZeVootEeVro · 19/10/2018 17:26

What the fuck is happening in politics at the moment?

Even someone coming on here to set the record straight has made it sound a hundred times worse than it did in the article.

Original poster
R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 17:25

The old disciplinary process was fundamentally flawed and not fit for process, and at our last conference we passed a motion to set up a new disciplinary process that will be more effective at dealing with issues like transphobia

This was much celebrated by Brown etc.

Presumably in the hope that the failed attempt to discipline Natalie Bird would not occur again.

'Troublesome views' will be better dealt with.

as I said not liberal, not democratic

OP posts:
JoanSummers · 19/10/2018 17:25

What makes a 'trans woman' trans?
What is it that makes a trans woman a sub category of woman?

Most importantly, what does it say about you @sorospaysme that you condone Sarah Brown, a male person, telling a lesbian to suck their balls?

FatherBuzzCagney · 19/10/2018 17:25

Sarah, if that's you, you'd stand a much better chance of re-election if you focused on something reality based, like the traffic flow problems round Cambridge station or the poor bastards who are sleeping rough down the side of the mosque. You can say TWAW for as long as it takes Cambridge Council to get a new Local Plan but that doesn't actually make it true.

Actually, on reflection, you can't be Sarah Brown because you've been much too polite.

QuietContraryMary · 19/10/2018 17:25

"We didn't get we want last time, so we changed the rules. "

No they got it, the issue was that there was a 75% level required, which they did reach, HOWEVER, they are scared in the future that if they want to remove people for wrongthink then they might not reach 75%, so they have changed the rules to make it easier.

deepwatersolo · 19/10/2018 17:24

Demanding from people to recite nonsensical stuff in order not to 'fall from grace' is pretty totalitarian stuff. Hannah Ahrendt wrote about this type of mechanism used to subordinate people in totalitarian regimes.

Original poster
R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 17:22

Sorry, cross post. You think she's a transphobe because she thinks that women are adult human females. That's barking mad but at least it's finally clear.

& must therefore be disciplined for troublesome views.

(sounds a bit like Gulags again)

OP posts:
JoanSummers · 19/10/2018 17:22

Rejecting that trans women are women, trans men are men

A fact that only the seriously deluded or dangerously manipulative would deny.

and nonbinary people are legitimate is transphobia.

Legitimate what? They're people, yes. Non binary however is a philosophical concept open to debate.

Datun · 19/10/2018 17:22

The old disciplinary process was fundamentally flawed and not fit for process, and at our last conference we passed a motion to set up a new disciplinary process that will be more effective at dealing with issues like transphobia

Oh good lord. This is just so ridiculous, it's difficult to believe.

We didn't get we want last time, so we changed the rules.

As I said - utter self obsessed children.

SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 17:22

You think she's a transphobe because she thinks that women are adult human females.

No, because trans women are also adult human females.

Datun · 19/10/2018 17:20

*SorosPaysMe

The transphobia was her being hostile and rejecting the RA and LibDem fundamental view that Trans women are women.

Unless you agree on the definition of what a woman is, that explanation is meaningless.

deepwatersolo · 19/10/2018 17:20

SorosPaysMe Sorry I have to break it to you, and I really feel bad about making you look stupid, but, you know, but you really can't say who is or isn't a woman, as long as you can't define the term 'woman'. It is called logic101.

FatherBuzzCagney · 19/10/2018 17:19

Sorry, cross post. You think she's a transphobe because she thinks that women are adult human females. That's barking mad but at least it's finally clear.

JoanSummers · 19/10/2018 17:19

It was a pretty funny comeback tbh

If you're 12.

And a misogynist.

Original poster
R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 17:19

The transphobia was her being hostile and rejecting the RA and LibDem fundamental view that Trans women are women. Trans men are men and Non-Binary people are legitimate and real.

This may be a current policy expression.

Not a 'fundamental view.

OP posts:
SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 17:19

FatherBuzzCagney Rejecting that trans women are women, trans men are men and nonbinary people are legitimate is transphobia.

JoanSummers · 19/10/2018 17:18

No @sorospaysme - Brown tweeted that at a cis man first, yes. Then when called out on it Brown repeated it towards a lesbian woman on twitter.

When women's criticism of Brown mounted they claimed that they had been driven to a 'nervous breakdown' by feminists.

Then they hid their social media for a whole before staging a secret comeback on the LibDemLGBTs account.

Any comment on that?