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Times 'Lib Dem trans activists ‘hounded’ abuse victim (Natalie Bird)''.Article refers to Zoe O'Connell & Sarah Brown

338 replies

R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 09:40

article by Lucy Bannerman
(extract)
"A victim of domestic abuse was removed as a judge of a radical thinking prize and “hounded” out of her role within the Liberal Democrats for saying that she did not believe that men who identified as women should have access to women’s refuges.

Natalie Bird, 38, a mother of two who fled an abusive former partner, was accused of “dangerous transphobia” by transgender activists in the party. She had said that opening up safe spaces without proper safeguards to anyone who said that they were female could put women at risk.

She opposed segregating women’s refuges by chosen gender instead of biological sex, and said that it was not fair to make female victims of domestic violence, abuse and rape share services with people with “functioning” male anatomy.

After being allegedly bullied on social media by party activists, Ms Bird was brought before a disciplinary hearing to face a complaint in the name of Zoe O’Connell, on behalf of the LGBT+ Liberal Democrats. The correspondence says that Ms Bird had “expressed troublesome views”.

The hearing found no evidence to support the complaint of transphobia, but Ms Bird lost her position as chairwoman of the Radical Association, made up of party members, following a vote of no confidence. This cost her her role as a judge of the Ashdown Prize for Radical Thought; an ironic move, Ms Bird said, given that the prize’s aim was to reward “big, bold, radical” solutions to society’s most “daunting problems . . . no one has the courage to argue for” (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lib-dem-trans-activists-hounded-abuse-victim-b6dx39tv3

Hopefully many LibDem Members will stand in support of Natalie Bird.

O'Connell and Brown make a mockery of the LibDem priciples and their bullying abusive behaviour has been allowed to run unchecked within the party.

The Liberal Democrats exist to build and safeguard a fair, free and open society, in which we seek to balance the fundamental values of liberty, equality and community, and in which no one shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity. We champion the freedom, dignity and well-being of individuals, we acknowledge and respect their right to freedom of conscience and their right to develop their talents to the full. We aim to disperse power, to foster diversity and to nurture creativity. We believe that the role of the state is to enable all citizens to attain these ideals, to contribute fully to their communities and to take part in the decisions which affect their lives.

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Original poster
R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 18:27

RedToothBrush I'm gonna guess you are probably Natalie herself. If you are, get over yourself and stop crying because you were exposed as the transphobe you are.

Red is a long standing poster on MN.

You are making a twit of yourself.

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FatherBuzzCagney · 19/10/2018 18:27

You're involved in politics, aligned with a political party running for elected office, and you don't want to get elected

Well it is the Lib Dems. No-one could possibly have joined in the last few years thinking it's an election-winning party. Though it might self-ID as an election winning party and then we'd all have to pretend Vince Cable is PM.

acivilcontract · 19/10/2018 18:26

The lib dems are a broad centrist group, the leadership, like every other political party may be signed up to the trans agenda but plenty like DH, myself and other run of the mill members aren't.
I showed DH the picture of the three cyclists this week and he was taken aback that he was meant to view the middle one as female and the competition as fair. I don't actually know any blokes who would think differently. I suspect the woke takeover is much more surface acceptance than actual belief.

SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 18:25

@LorettasBox the vast majority of people who are involved in political parties don't stand for election. I have a life and a career away from politics and I would much rather support people who would make better elected politicians than myself.

SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 18:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

LorettasBox · 19/10/2018 18:22

Sorospaysme, cool story bro. You're involved in politics, aligned with a political party running for elected office, and you don't want to get elected. Permanent protestor, then, rather than politician.

Don't @ me, btw.

SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 18:21

RedToothBrush Well thats absolute crap, by "innter clique" you mean the people who founded the organisation, run it on a day to day basis and are continually elected to senior roles by the membership. It was entirely democratic and legitimate for the membership (not the notable members) to bin her when they didn't want her as Chair anymore. Thats how democracy works, nobody is entitled to stay as Chair when the membership doesn't want them to be Chair anymore.

RedToothBrush · 19/10/2018 18:18

The Times has caught you all red handed.

Whether it goes anywhere from now remains to be seen, but it wasn't a vote that resembles anything like the standards and values the LDs are supposed to.

The whole group should be suspended from the federation for what went on.

RedToothBrush · 19/10/2018 18:14

There is a very different story about how this vote was held to the one I've heard.

'Kangaroo Court' and 'witch trial' by the inner clique due the complete absence of transparency are the phrases that spring to mind.

Natalie's crime is her face didn't fit. And the vote was a way to legitimise the travesty of the way she was removed by claiming to be democratic.

Well it was democratic if you regard China as a bastion of free speech and liberal democracy.

To anyone else it just looks like a stitch up.

SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 18:12

@LorettasBox Well im not a politician, i've never stood and will never stand for public office

SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 18:08

@QuietContraryMary

No they got it, the issue was that there was a 75% level required, which they did reach, HOWEVER, they are scared in the future that if they want to remove people for wrongthink then they might not reach 75%, so they have changed the rules to make it easier.

I'm talking about the federal Party disciplinary procedure, the RA's no confidence system is still at 75%.

deepwatersolo · 19/10/2018 18:07

Whatever your opinion on how in touch with reality someone is who says a transwoman is an adult human female, you have to enjoy the political nous of a politician who says "Fuck off and vote for someone else!"

Personally, I can't overcome a politician demanding their peers recite stuff that makes no sense using words they can't define. And it ain't even a representative of the fascists, where this type of stuff would at least have some tradition.

LorettasBox · 19/10/2018 18:02

Whatever your opinion on how in touch with reality someone is who says a transwoman is an adult human female, you have to enjoy the political nous of a politician who says "Fuck off and vote for someone else!"

AugustL · 19/10/2018 17:56

"No, because trans women are also adult human females."

Your delusion is strong, but won't make it true. I feel sorry for you, and for trans women who are affected by the backlash to absolute bullshit like this.

Original poster
R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 17:46

"put it in terms you lot will hopefully be able to comprehend"

Vince Cable's recent speech: "Liberal democracy itself is under threat notably in the USA, in Eastern Europe and perhaps here. Authoritarians and extremists of both right and left are on the march"

concludes:
"But the way in which the revolutionary left hijacked the Labour Party, and used Momentum for its own purposes, is a salutary warning. And the Tories are being taken over by extremists even with a narrow, exclusive, membership base.

We have to be careful but we cannot be afraid of opening windows lest a few flies get in. In any case, the Liberal Democrats are different.

We are not a socialist party concerned with extreme-left entryism, or a right-wing party trying to keep extreme right-wingers out.

We are a centre-ground, pro-European, liberal and social democratic party, welcoming like-minded supporters.

This will be a Movement for Moderates!"

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TheElementsSong · 19/10/2018 17:45

DH joined the LD in the wake of the Brexit debacle (I didn't feel I wanted to join a political party as I have believed in basing my vote on policies and candidates at the time of an election) - but I often voted LD because of their policies and candidates.

Having seen the sterling efforts from representatives of the party on this thread, I've definitely seen "the light". It'll be up to DH what he does with his party membership, but I'll get him to have a read later this evening and I suspect he too will be seeing things in a whole new way.

AspieAndProud · 19/10/2018 17:40

If you don't agree with that then you are at odds with our fundamental values.

Those fundamental values include the right not to be ‘enslaved’ by ‘conformity’.

How do you square this circle?

JoanSummers · 19/10/2018 17:39

I swear, that’s what this whole fucking movement is about.

Yep.

QuietContraryMary · 19/10/2018 17:38

"Clearly it is."

As I observed above there are multiple men running this group and they all have identikit views, so who cares.

Materialist · 19/10/2018 17:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FekkoTheLawyer · 19/10/2018 17:36

I just saw a photo of the hounders. Well that's put me off my tea.

Will they now be hounded by the gutter press?

FatherBuzzCagney · 19/10/2018 17:35

Clearly it is

Not convinced but if it is (or if you're lurking Sarah), can I also add to the suggested 'to do' list, taking on fully paid up cult-of-Corbyn member and bloke with a severe case of transport-related monomania councillor Dave Baigent who is determined to get Mill Road closed to through traffic and thereby fuck up every residential street in Petersfield and Romsey? Thanks.

pennydrew · 19/10/2018 17:35

No, because trans women are also adult human females

No they’re not, you’re making a factually incorrect statement. Every single cell of their body shows they’re Male. The desperate need for validation is because trans women know they’re not female, they think they’ll believe it themselves if enough women say it. A transsexual told me that once. That’s why there’s this demand to be validated, because of the self doubt.

JoanSummers · 19/10/2018 17:34

Every person that arrives to lecture and harangue woman for wrong think always describes us at "you lot".

Yes it's interesting and demonstrates that they set themselves apart from and consider themselves superior to women as a group.

Which is illuminating.

Original poster
R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 17:32

Michael Biggs
Associate Professor in Sociology and Fellow of St Cross College writes:
"A meeting was held on 25 April 2018 to discuss proposed changes to the law on gender recognition. The proposed legislation will eliminate sex-segregated spaces and activities, from women’s refuges to competitive sports. In a democracy, people have the right to meet to discuss—and indeed oppose—legislative changes. This should be incontrovertible. I am appalled that a small number of students at Oxford used extreme measures to stop this meeting from being held....
(concludes)
I have entered this debate not because I am a feminist but because freedom of speech is one of the highest values of a democratic society, and the basic foundation of university life.
Transgender activism poses a grave threat to freedom of speech. I think of the young MPhil student who had to disguise herself to attend this meeting because she feared the reaction of fellow students. This is the generation that we have educated."
users.ox.ac.uk/~sfos0060/FreeSpeechOxford.pdf

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