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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Times 'Lib Dem trans activists ‘hounded’ abuse victim (Natalie Bird)''.Article refers to Zoe O'Connell & Sarah Brown

338 replies

R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 09:40

article by Lucy Bannerman
(extract)
"A victim of domestic abuse was removed as a judge of a radical thinking prize and “hounded” out of her role within the Liberal Democrats for saying that she did not believe that men who identified as women should have access to women’s refuges.

Natalie Bird, 38, a mother of two who fled an abusive former partner, was accused of “dangerous transphobia” by transgender activists in the party. She had said that opening up safe spaces without proper safeguards to anyone who said that they were female could put women at risk.

She opposed segregating women’s refuges by chosen gender instead of biological sex, and said that it was not fair to make female victims of domestic violence, abuse and rape share services with people with “functioning” male anatomy.

After being allegedly bullied on social media by party activists, Ms Bird was brought before a disciplinary hearing to face a complaint in the name of Zoe O’Connell, on behalf of the LGBT+ Liberal Democrats. The correspondence says that Ms Bird had “expressed troublesome views”.

The hearing found no evidence to support the complaint of transphobia, but Ms Bird lost her position as chairwoman of the Radical Association, made up of party members, following a vote of no confidence. This cost her her role as a judge of the Ashdown Prize for Radical Thought; an ironic move, Ms Bird said, given that the prize’s aim was to reward “big, bold, radical” solutions to society’s most “daunting problems . . . no one has the courage to argue for” (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lib-dem-trans-activists-hounded-abuse-victim-b6dx39tv3

Hopefully many LibDem Members will stand in support of Natalie Bird.

O'Connell and Brown make a mockery of the LibDem priciples and their bullying abusive behaviour has been allowed to run unchecked within the party.

The Liberal Democrats exist to build and safeguard a fair, free and open society, in which we seek to balance the fundamental values of liberty, equality and community, and in which no one shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity. We champion the freedom, dignity and well-being of individuals, we acknowledge and respect their right to freedom of conscience and their right to develop their talents to the full. We aim to disperse power, to foster diversity and to nurture creativity. We believe that the role of the state is to enable all citizens to attain these ideals, to contribute fully to their communities and to take part in the decisions which affect their lives.

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FatherBuzzCagney · 19/10/2018 19:09

By the way Soros, if you've "been a member much longer than a few years" I guess that means you were happy to campaign for a party led by Tim "homophobe" Farron. But a woman sticking to the biological basis for the definition of woman is your bigotry red line, is that right?

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 19/10/2018 19:03

Dont...obviously Grin

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 19/10/2018 19:03

lorrttas

Im just sat here like Shock

Dh and i have both voted libdem and ds1 is a member

Ive been thinking about whether to stick with them but honestly...If as an organisation they are struggling with the definition of female...not woman...female! well, it probably explains why they domt seem to have a cat in hells chance of making it to government

acivilcontract · 19/10/2018 19:00

soros it's worse than you think, dh and I have stood for lib dems in the past 😂. I have have actually had people vote for my t...f arse. I would do again if I was in UK at present.

I don't think you understand that there are lots of people who support trans rights when asked and they support trans people in many ways but not to the point of risk or exclusion of women. Very much what was said in the guardian. There are others like my dh who say yes but would go nuts if dd had to sleep as a teenager in a tent with a male bodied teenager and no sensible risk assessment.

Sarahconnor1 · 19/10/2018 18:56

I don't wanttransphobesto vote for our candidates, I am more than happy to get the vast majority of the pro-Trans rights pro self-ID public to vote for us

Good luck with that. I will actively campaign against any party that does not take women's rights seriously.

DereksSexyPyjamas · 19/10/2018 18:53

I didn’t think the Lib Dem share of the vote could fall much lower than it did after the coalition but it seems likely that I am wrong.

I think it might actually be a world’s first and go into minus figures.

LangCleg · 19/10/2018 18:51

I don't want transphobes to vote for our candidates, I am more than happy to get the vast majority of the pro-Trans rights pro self-ID public to vote for us

That's very ambitious of you, going for 18% of the electorate, tops. Aim high, why don't you?!

LangCleg · 19/10/2018 18:47

LangCleg Idk where you get the idea that I want anyone here's, or more importantly anyone who backs Natalie, vote. I don't. Go vote UKIP or something, or the greens if they go full transphobe, cos they are the only parties backing your vile anti trans agenda. Or maybe the National Front/BNP/EDL or whatever its called these days will back you as well.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 18:39

I don't want transphobes to vote for our candidates, I am more than happy to get the vast majority of the pro-Trans rights pro self-ID public to vote for us

and this is how you are damaging a party at a critical time in British political history.

You have defined what you deem to be 'transphobic' &by your definition you will find the vast majority of the population are 'transphobic' .

They're not by the way, any more than 'us lot' here.

It is a grave mistake to underestimate people.

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Doobigetta · 19/10/2018 18:38

Hello, just checking in to confirm that I’m a LibDem member and a GC Feminist, and I know a lot of others. I also know a lot of not-particularly-GC-or-feminist LibDems who are shocked and appalled by the way the party is being hijacked by these lunatics. There are an awful lot of people who will need to be thrown out if the party is to be thoroughly cleansed of the nasty TERF stain. And by that point the brave and stunning warriors left might be looking back on the days when there were 12 MPs as a golden age of triumph. Given that the party has spectacularly failed to gain from being the only one unequivocally representing 48% of the electorate on Brexit, it would seem a little optimistic to pick an issue that only 2-15% of the public support as the one to go for.

BettyDuMonde · 19/10/2018 18:38

So, none of the 97% of Times readers who think male bodied people should stay out of women only spaces?

And none of the 82% of people who responded to the recent Pink News survey?

I didn’t think the Lib Dem share of the vote could fall much lower than it did after the coalition but it seems likely that I am wrong.

The majority of the U.K. public simply do not accept that women can have penises. They just don’t. They will nod along to be polite but they think it’s nonsense.

FatherBuzzCagney · 19/10/2018 18:38

I don't want transphobes to vote for our candidates

Given that your definition of transphobe is anyone who says that transwomen are not women, then your candidates are going to be losing a lot of deposits if they don't. Please do try to get the Lib Dems to adopt 'only vote for me if you think women can have penises' as a slogan on all your campaign literature, I think that would be amazing.

TheElementsSong · 19/10/2018 18:37

"How to Lose Friends and Alienate People" Grin

JoanSummers · 19/10/2018 18:35

I am more than happy to get the vast majority of the pro-Trans rights pro self-ID public to vote for us

:D
Good luck with that!

R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 18:35

God forbid Natalie might have someone to stick up for her and say the times story isn't bollocks.

I think many women in the LibDems are well aware of what has been happening in broadterms and so unsurprised by the details of this specific case.

Hopefull more members of LibDems who understand what being liberal and democratic mean will stand up.

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LorettasBox · 19/10/2018 18:35

You are hilarious. According to all definitions of transphobia peddled around, reality is transphobic. Good luck with that. Grin

SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 18:33

LorettasBox I don't want transphobes to vote for our candidates, I am more than happy to get the vast majority of the pro-Trans rights pro self-ID public to vote for us

RedToothBrush · 19/10/2018 18:32

God forbid Natalie might have someone to stick up for her and say the times story isn't bollocks.

R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 18:32

I've been a member much longer than a few years lmfao

We are well aware how long TRAs have been using the LibDems.

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SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 18:31

R0wantrees Its entirely possible that she is both Natalie and a long time poster, it would very onbrand for Natalie

SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 18:31

FatherBuzzCagney I've been a member much longer than a few years lmfao

JoanSummers · 19/10/2018 18:30

I'm gonna guess you are probably Natalie herself.

Ah, the classic "I have no argument and no imagination so I'm just going to copy what a woman said first" sexist tactic so beloved of TRAs.

R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 18:30

Sal, Vince and the rest of the party stands with trans rights and against the ignorant values of Natalie and other transphobes who deny the reality that Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men and Non-Binary people are legitimate and real.

Do carry on, there are many people reading your comments.

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SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 18:29

acivilcontract The leadership (who are elected), our MPs (who are selected by members, those elected to internal committees (by the membership), the leadership and membership of Young Liberals, LGBT+ LibDems, LibDem Women and a range of other membership lead organisations.... and most importantly LibDem Federal Conference which i the sovereign body of the membership all explicitly and overwhelmingly back trans rights. There may be a small number of transphobes and trans exclusionary feminists in the party but they are a very small minority.

LorettasBox · 19/10/2018 18:28

Sorospaysme, you've been asked not to @ me. Please desist.

So you're a political activist who doesn't want people to vote for the candidates you support. You've got totalitarianism down very well, but that democracy thing seems to be escaping you.