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Times 'Lib Dem trans activists ‘hounded’ abuse victim (Natalie Bird)''.Article refers to Zoe O'Connell & Sarah Brown

338 replies

R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 09:40

article by Lucy Bannerman
(extract)
"A victim of domestic abuse was removed as a judge of a radical thinking prize and “hounded” out of her role within the Liberal Democrats for saying that she did not believe that men who identified as women should have access to women’s refuges.

Natalie Bird, 38, a mother of two who fled an abusive former partner, was accused of “dangerous transphobia” by transgender activists in the party. She had said that opening up safe spaces without proper safeguards to anyone who said that they were female could put women at risk.

She opposed segregating women’s refuges by chosen gender instead of biological sex, and said that it was not fair to make female victims of domestic violence, abuse and rape share services with people with “functioning” male anatomy.

After being allegedly bullied on social media by party activists, Ms Bird was brought before a disciplinary hearing to face a complaint in the name of Zoe O’Connell, on behalf of the LGBT+ Liberal Democrats. The correspondence says that Ms Bird had “expressed troublesome views”.

The hearing found no evidence to support the complaint of transphobia, but Ms Bird lost her position as chairwoman of the Radical Association, made up of party members, following a vote of no confidence. This cost her her role as a judge of the Ashdown Prize for Radical Thought; an ironic move, Ms Bird said, given that the prize’s aim was to reward “big, bold, radical” solutions to society’s most “daunting problems . . . no one has the courage to argue for” (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lib-dem-trans-activists-hounded-abuse-victim-b6dx39tv3

Hopefully many LibDem Members will stand in support of Natalie Bird.

O'Connell and Brown make a mockery of the LibDem priciples and their bullying abusive behaviour has been allowed to run unchecked within the party.

The Liberal Democrats exist to build and safeguard a fair, free and open society, in which we seek to balance the fundamental values of liberty, equality and community, and in which no one shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity. We champion the freedom, dignity and well-being of individuals, we acknowledge and respect their right to freedom of conscience and their right to develop their talents to the full. We aim to disperse power, to foster diversity and to nurture creativity. We believe that the role of the state is to enable all citizens to attain these ideals, to contribute fully to their communities and to take part in the decisions which affect their lives.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
RedToothBrush · 19/10/2018 22:55

Echo echo can you hear the sound of the echo of your own voice.

We you only want to hear the echo of your own voice you have really lost your way.

How can you represent anyone but yourself?

Echo echo can you hear it

Datun · 19/10/2018 22:26

you nailed it. I was pretty surprised when I realized the TWAW crowd literally has no rational argument. At all.

This really can't be emphasised enough.

lakeswimmer · 19/10/2018 22:18

I'm a former Lib Dem member and voter without anyone to vote for.

Still, this thread is giving me some fascinating stuff for me to raise with my Lib Dem MP; I'm looking forward to putting them on the spot Grin

JetPlanes · 19/10/2018 22:15

Sal, Vince and the rest of the party stands with trans rights and against the ignorant values of Natalie and other transphobes who deny the reality that Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men and Non-Binary people are legitimate and real

I am 100% certain that Vince knows that transwomen are not women. Fuck knows why he’s not sorting this all out but you are deluding yourself if you think the grown ups really believe that

deepwatersolo · 19/10/2018 21:36

pombear you nailed it. I was pretty surprised when I realized the TWAW crowd literally has no rational argument. At all. It is really like toddlerd trying to will reality to bend to their demands, which are simply unfulfillable. (Reminds me of toddler-age DS demanding that I force people on the beach to install this gigantic inflated island/slide thing in the sea that they have in summer, but not in autumn. Now that was a tantrum.)

arranfan · 19/10/2018 21:18

Turph - Iris Child captures it (if anyone hasn't, please read the entire poem): I Will Not Say It

what if I am in your space?
would you say it to my face?

what if all the legal courts
say I can be in your sports?

what if laws are made for me
stopping you from stopping me?

what if a panel all agreed
gave me the paper I said I need?

Trousered · 19/10/2018 21:13

Well that went well. I went out for a couple of hours and the top blew well and truly off.

The general position of the men lining up behind this is "these are men's rights. We want to force you to consent if you agree or not."

Soros - you lot are humanphobes, humanrights phobes, consent phobes, femalephobes, realityphobes, freespeechphobes.

pombear · 19/10/2018 20:59

deep apologies for waking your DS!

It really is the main visual analogy that I see in this case.

It must be so difficult, once you've adopted the 'transwomen are women' mantra, despite many, increasing stable, rational adult voices challenging you to say "really? Come on, that's a really kind thing to say to men who feel like women, but really, do you really think that"?

So you have two options.

1: Acknowledge that, of course, you're being inclusive, progressive, kind, etc, but you know realistically no human being can really change their biological sex. Bit embarrassing, but an adult thing to do.

2: Stand fast with your mantra. Repeat it daily, firing it off to anyone who disagrees with you (not sure how you think that'll change opinions, but hey, it's an approach). Less embarrassing, because you're a warrior, you're a progressive, and you're fighting against 'phobes. (Despite the fact that many of those you label as 'phobes are either people who are LGB, or fought for LGB rights for years - old hat nowadays though, queer is the new black )

I still visualise them tantruming on their tummies in the middle of Sainsburys. But transwomen are women, listen to me mummy, transwomen are women

AspieAndProud · 19/10/2018 20:57

Sometimes you just have to walk away whilst they throw themselves prostate on the floor in the middle of Sainsburys, because you're not going to be able to help them!

Autocorrect is GC.

KataraJean · 19/10/2018 20:54

Emma Ritchie quoted on VAWG organisations in Scotland having to be inclusive as a condition of funding.
Women working in VAGW organisations in Scotland KNOW the Emperor has no clothes; they just do not dare say so, and do their best with the resources they have.

deepwatersolo · 19/10/2018 20:50

pombear I just woke up my DS in the next room by laughing and snorting uncontrollably at reading this eternal truth about ‚sometimes you just have to walk away ‚cause you can‘t help the tantruming child anyway...‘ GrinGrinGrin

pombear · 19/10/2018 20:41

*Prostrate FFS. I can't believe I did that, so often I see it used accidentally instead of prostrate.

...mind you, probably relevant and applicable to many in this case, throwing themselves and their attached prostate on the floor!

pombear · 19/10/2018 20:38

Watching this thread play out is amazing (sad but amazing!).

A) There seems such a disconnect with some people like Soros from mainstream and real life.

B) Whilst I've voted for Lib Dems in the past, if, as Soros is claiming, this is the reality of the party, they're hammering the nail in the coffin of never voting for them again, ever. (Though, to be honest, that was a given already seeing as noone senior in the party seems to be concerned about that bonkers twitter account of their LGBTQ division)

C) You don't even have to be a student of language to spot the very clear markers in Soros' posts that indicate they belong to a particular biological category. (I may be wrong, 'cos it's the internet, but the signs are all there. I think there will be a lot of adult human females reading their posts and recognising that dominant, dismissive, overbearing tone and use of phrasing.

D) I feel a tiny inkling of pity for all those trapped in repeating the phrase 'transwomen are women'. It reminds me very much of when young children get so stuck in saying something, despite all reality demonstrating the opposite, that in the end they have a meltdown tantrum.

They just can't roll back from their statements.

Sometimes you just have to walk away whilst they throw themselves prostate on the floor in the middle of Sainsburys, because you're not going to be able to help them!

nononsene · 19/10/2018 20:18

I donated to the lib dems at the last election. They will not be getting any more money from me. I’m furious about all this.

I think I’ll have to spoil my ballot paper in the next election though as the alternatives are not really any better when it comes to this issue.

Original poster
R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 20:17

Sooo...a bunch of men bullied and harassed a female survivor of domestic violence out of the group because she wouldn't accept that men are women?
Yeah. That sounds reasonable.

and then women here who thought this was very serious were told off by friends and LibDem allies of Sarah Brown and Zoe O'Connell.

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NowtSalamander · 19/10/2018 20:10

To be honest, we should just all stop talking because sometimes intelligent women speaking forthrightly for their rights gets people’s back up (I wonder why...) whereas people live to take the piss out of stupid.

We should fill these pages with statements like: “I don’t want votes from anyone who thinks women don’t have penises” and we’re done.

IfNotNowThenWooOoOoo · 19/10/2018 20:09

Sooo...a bunch of men bullied and harassed a female survivor of domestic violence out of the group because she wouldn't accept that men are women?
Yeah. That sounds reasonable.

Ereshkigal · 19/10/2018 19:47

Thank you so much for mentioning Cluster B. I swear, that’s what this whole fucking movement is about.

Absolutely. And the country needs to wake up to it.

terryleather · 19/10/2018 19:36

^Hark, hark, the narcs do bark
TRAs are coming to town
Some in rags , and some in jags
And some in velvet gowns^

Lisa Muggeridge called it, the narcissistic rage is reaching a crescendo and is quite something to behold.

Original poster
R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 19:33

This is how thick these people are. They openly say they don't want the votes of 82% of the electorate. They don't think politics is about persuading people to your point of view. There's just one policy

I am going to quote Prof. Michael Biggs again:

I have entered this debate not because I am a feminist but because freedom of speech is one of the highest values of a democratic society, and the basic foundation of university life.
Transgender activism poses a grave threat to freedom of speech. I think of the young MPhil student who had to disguise herself to attend this meeting because she feared the reaction of fellow students. This is the generation that we have educated.

users.ox.ac.uk/~sfos0060/FreeSpeechOxford.pdf

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Original poster
R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 19:29

And there we were, thinking Momemtum were the crazies.....

Given the ease that Aimee Challenor switched from the Greens to the LibDems, I'm increasingly of the opinion they're much of a muchness.

OP posts:
TimeLady · 19/10/2018 19:21

And there we were, thinking Momemtum were the crazies.....

TwistedStitch · 19/10/2018 19:15

Well. Sounds like Aimee Challenor will fit in nicely anyway.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 19/10/2018 19:13

Someone still a member of the lib dems should pass this thread on to them

Its all very well saying that transphobes arent wanted by the party (and why not indeed) its not a good advert when your idea of a transphobe is someone who believes this

female
/ˈfiːmeɪl/Submit
adjective
1.
of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes.

LangCleg · 19/10/2018 19:09

The only reliable polling we have had (Pink News via YouGov) had 18% public support for self-ID.

This is how thick these people are. They openly say they don't want the votes of 82% of the electorate. They don't think politics is about persuading people to your point of view. There's just one policy:

Trans Year Zero