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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Times 'Lib Dem trans activists ‘hounded’ abuse victim (Natalie Bird)''.Article refers to Zoe O'Connell & Sarah Brown

338 replies

R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 09:40

article by Lucy Bannerman
(extract)
"A victim of domestic abuse was removed as a judge of a radical thinking prize and “hounded” out of her role within the Liberal Democrats for saying that she did not believe that men who identified as women should have access to women’s refuges.

Natalie Bird, 38, a mother of two who fled an abusive former partner, was accused of “dangerous transphobia” by transgender activists in the party. She had said that opening up safe spaces without proper safeguards to anyone who said that they were female could put women at risk.

She opposed segregating women’s refuges by chosen gender instead of biological sex, and said that it was not fair to make female victims of domestic violence, abuse and rape share services with people with “functioning” male anatomy.

After being allegedly bullied on social media by party activists, Ms Bird was brought before a disciplinary hearing to face a complaint in the name of Zoe O’Connell, on behalf of the LGBT+ Liberal Democrats. The correspondence says that Ms Bird had “expressed troublesome views”.

The hearing found no evidence to support the complaint of transphobia, but Ms Bird lost her position as chairwoman of the Radical Association, made up of party members, following a vote of no confidence. This cost her her role as a judge of the Ashdown Prize for Radical Thought; an ironic move, Ms Bird said, given that the prize’s aim was to reward “big, bold, radical” solutions to society’s most “daunting problems . . . no one has the courage to argue for” (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lib-dem-trans-activists-hounded-abuse-victim-b6dx39tv3

Hopefully many LibDem Members will stand in support of Natalie Bird.

O'Connell and Brown make a mockery of the LibDem priciples and their bullying abusive behaviour has been allowed to run unchecked within the party.

The Liberal Democrats exist to build and safeguard a fair, free and open society, in which we seek to balance the fundamental values of liberty, equality and community, and in which no one shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity. We champion the freedom, dignity and well-being of individuals, we acknowledge and respect their right to freedom of conscience and their right to develop their talents to the full. We aim to disperse power, to foster diversity and to nurture creativity. We believe that the role of the state is to enable all citizens to attain these ideals, to contribute fully to their communities and to take part in the decisions which affect their lives.

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R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 12:51

thread about Newsnight with Helen Belcher part of discussion here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398059-Dr-Kathleen-Stock-on-Newsnight-tonight-and-BBC-South-East

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R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 12:49

Helen Belcher who was on Newsnight last night, has made recent allegation about Janice Turner's Times articles contributing to suicides of people who are transgender also LibDem.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3393577-Janice-Turner-accused-of-causing-trans-suicides

Helen Belcher is key member of Trans Media Watch:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3238618-Trans-Media-Watch-has-written-to-parliament-saying-trans-identified-male-can-be-considered-as-hate-speech-and-that-Mumsnet-users-referring-to-penises-are-being-transphobic

author of letter:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3397760-Open-Letter-about-Trans-Media-Portrayal-signed-by-lots

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breastfeedingclownfish · 19/10/2018 12:47

All 'girls' together. Bet they do pamper days and everything

RedToothBrush · 19/10/2018 12:34

April Preston sorry.

RedToothBrush · 19/10/2018 12:33

You its funny, I mentioned on a thread a couple of weeks ago, something about April Peston.

I got a couple of PMs about it. Including one saying they were 'friends' with April.

Now we have someone going on about how they are close to Zoe and Sarah.

April, Sarah and Zoe are all part of the same clique.

We know this.

We also know that Sarah Noble and Aimee Challenor are part of this small friendship group.

And we also know they are patrolling MN for reference to themselves.

Interesting huh?

People KNOW.

pennydrew · 19/10/2018 12:28

Wow. The Lib Dems are just fucked, aren't they?
Yes. I voted for them previously. Never again.

RedToothBrush · 19/10/2018 12:26

Yes.

They are.

The leadership radical association WERE challenged over their handling of the issue and transparency.

It was a complete stitch up from beginning to end.

Trousered · 19/10/2018 12:26

Forcing a disciplinary procedure on a woman for this perfectly reasonable viewpoint is shocking.

The people that took part in it should explain why they thought they were doing the right thing.

IfNotNowThenWooOoOoo · 19/10/2018 12:22

Soo...two ex-men have hounded and bullied a female survivor of domestic abuse out of the Lib Dems because she had the "troublesome view" that men should not be able to get into domestic abuse refuges which are designed to keep women safe from violence?

Wow. The Lib Dems are just fucked, aren't they?

ProfessoressWoland · 19/10/2018 12:10

I've been a member for years, but Natalie Bird's treatment is a deal breaker for me. Illiberal and irrational - the opposite of what the party claims to represent. I won't be renewing my membership next time.

RedToothBrush · 19/10/2018 12:09

People know.

Sarah and Zoe might be hardworking.

But they are also intolerant of differences of opinion. They don't want to work through problems. They want to tell people what they should think. And if they don't their solution is to tell them to shut up.

That's a problem.

As I say not enough accountability. Mainly cos everyone is scared of Zoe and Sarah because of the power they have and that stems from their untouchable trans status unfortunately.

TwistedStitch · 19/10/2018 12:07

AnnoyedAlly not much of a friend are you, if you aren't willing to call them out on making massive dicks of themselves in public. A genuine friend would take them to one side and tell them that harrassing victims of abuse is not a good look for them.

MonsterSister · 19/10/2018 12:04

Zoe & Sarah are decent hard working people, representing their local area as political activists and standing up for a fair, open and tolerant society.

They slid in under-the-radar changes to local policies, write foul stuff on Twitter, hound people out of politics and campaign for male access to female loos. I don't find any of that fair, decent or tolerant. Do you?

Find me evidence that they have asked local people about this and listened to the answers.

RedToothBrush · 19/10/2018 11:58

And precisely the reason Aimee Challenor should not be allowed in.

Senior people in the party know there's a problem.

RedToothBrush · 19/10/2018 11:57

Fair too much power. Fair too little accountability.

Checks and balances.

Same problem as the Green Party.

Cliques. And too few people involved in certain areas of the party to counter that. They are just driven out.

Mumfun · 19/10/2018 11:55

shocking. have emailed Lib Dem senior contacts about it!

BigotedWoman · 19/10/2018 11:37

👏🏼 Lucy Bannerman and the Times again.

Natalie Bird is an incredible woman.

R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 11:26

apologies, should read 'poorly written blog post'

(which was withdrawn by Emma Healey the MN intern with an apology but was saved and spread widely by the LibDem LGBT+ twitter account)

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R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 11:25

AnnoyedAlly Your friends Sarah Brown and Zoe O'Connell have reeated and spread the false assertion that 'Mumsnetters are calling for a new Section 28'
This was based on a poorly written MN intern who breached the data of women on this site.
Emma Healy 'quoted' a post with an ironic comment by someone supportive of trans rights.

You may have (like many) Lib Dems believed this.

It is important to use critical thinking and be aware of confirmation bias.

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BettyDuMonde · 19/10/2018 11:18

Maybe the challenge should be to your illiberal friends, AnnoyedAlly?

See, the thing is, we can actually see how people operate with our own eyes. Even if we give the benefit of the doubt and imagine the media is misrepresenting a person, their very own Twitter posts show us the truth.

Updated idiom for contemporary times ‘direct from the horses keyboard’.

Trousered · 19/10/2018 11:14

I am astounded by the hate I read here for two people I am proud to call friend

The posts above your post containing this comment are in the main repetitions of factual reporting and querying the moral reasoning of the people involved. Why is that in your opinion hate? Is this another word with the definition destroyed?

You are showing the same dubious morality here by doing this.

R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 11:07

Zoe O'Connell IPSO complaint about Times reporting of Fairplay for Women's research on transgender prisoners- not upheld.

www.ipso.co.uk/rulings-and-resolution-statements/ruling/?id=20177-17

Zoe O'Connell complaint to Parliament about David Davies, hosting of the 'We Need to Talk' meeting- not upheld.

www.parliament.uk/documents/pcfs/not-upheld/davidtcdaviesnotupheld.pdf

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R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 11:03

Expressing it that way seems loaded with understated threat to me. Where is the space for freedom of speech?

O'Connell and Brown make repeated threats.

Free speech is verboten.

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BlardyBlar · 19/10/2018 10:54

The LibDem party seems full of poison right now. Very sad.

And this phrase...

“expressed troublesome views”

Expressing it that way seems loaded with understated threat to me. Where is the space for freedom of speech?