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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Times 'Lib Dem trans activists ‘hounded’ abuse victim (Natalie Bird)''.Article refers to Zoe O'Connell & Sarah Brown

338 replies

R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 09:40

article by Lucy Bannerman
(extract)
"A victim of domestic abuse was removed as a judge of a radical thinking prize and “hounded” out of her role within the Liberal Democrats for saying that she did not believe that men who identified as women should have access to women’s refuges.

Natalie Bird, 38, a mother of two who fled an abusive former partner, was accused of “dangerous transphobia” by transgender activists in the party. She had said that opening up safe spaces without proper safeguards to anyone who said that they were female could put women at risk.

She opposed segregating women’s refuges by chosen gender instead of biological sex, and said that it was not fair to make female victims of domestic violence, abuse and rape share services with people with “functioning” male anatomy.

After being allegedly bullied on social media by party activists, Ms Bird was brought before a disciplinary hearing to face a complaint in the name of Zoe O’Connell, on behalf of the LGBT+ Liberal Democrats. The correspondence says that Ms Bird had “expressed troublesome views”.

The hearing found no evidence to support the complaint of transphobia, but Ms Bird lost her position as chairwoman of the Radical Association, made up of party members, following a vote of no confidence. This cost her her role as a judge of the Ashdown Prize for Radical Thought; an ironic move, Ms Bird said, given that the prize’s aim was to reward “big, bold, radical” solutions to society’s most “daunting problems . . . no one has the courage to argue for” (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lib-dem-trans-activists-hounded-abuse-victim-b6dx39tv3

Hopefully many LibDem Members will stand in support of Natalie Bird.

O'Connell and Brown make a mockery of the LibDem priciples and their bullying abusive behaviour has been allowed to run unchecked within the party.

The Liberal Democrats exist to build and safeguard a fair, free and open society, in which we seek to balance the fundamental values of liberty, equality and community, and in which no one shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity. We champion the freedom, dignity and well-being of individuals, we acknowledge and respect their right to freedom of conscience and their right to develop their talents to the full. We aim to disperse power, to foster diversity and to nurture creativity. We believe that the role of the state is to enable all citizens to attain these ideals, to contribute fully to their communities and to take part in the decisions which affect their lives.

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UpThePankhurst · 23/07/2024 16:09

Zebracat · 23/07/2024 12:17

So pleased with this. But I am absolutely furious with the LibDem Statement. They were not taken to court for supporting transpeople. They were taken toCourt for destroying a female survivor of domestic abuse.

It's an interesting statement really: it would suggest that they believe 'supporting transpeople' involves actively harming women.

I'd give any decent barrister two minutes to jump all over that.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/07/2024 15:37

That statement is atrocious and I hope she brings it up at the hearing as they are continuing to harass her.

duc748 · 23/07/2024 13:33

Such a relief but the process is the punishment

Again and again it's this, isn't it? What a bunch of shits these people are. Whilst telling themselves, of course, that they're the good guys!

Igmum · 23/07/2024 13:10

Such a relief but the process is the punishment. Natalie has been treated incredibly badly then had a court hearing and lawyers' fees hanging over her head for years. I hope the judge awards her a very generous settlement

RedToothBrush · 23/07/2024 12:42

I think they are protecting a couple of people in the party. If this blew up they'd have been under pressure to deal with certain individuals. This way they don't have to because they are paying off Natalie in effect.

Zebracat · 23/07/2024 12:34

And I hope that the Court take due notice of their arrogant disregard for the suffering of their victim when the adjudicate on compensation next month.

Zebracat · 23/07/2024 12:17

So pleased with this. But I am absolutely furious with the LibDem Statement. They were not taken to court for supporting transpeople. They were taken toCourt for destroying a female survivor of domestic abuse.

Times 'Lib Dem trans activists ‘hounded’ abuse victim (Natalie Bird)''.Article refers to Zoe O'Connell & Sarah Brown
RedToothBrush · 23/07/2024 08:58

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/07/2024 08:41

I wonder if the Lib Dems have decided that the adverse publicity isn't worth it and are hoping if they quietly settle the stories will be buried, in the light of their election success.

Hopefully it's come up more than they'd like in conversation.

The one thing about getting more MPs elected is it adds a bunch of voices with power to the party rather than it all being with the unseen activists.

It would dilute the power of the clique.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/07/2024 08:41

I wonder if the Lib Dems have decided that the adverse publicity isn't worth it and are hoping if they quietly settle the stories will be buried, in the light of their election success.

fromorbit · 23/07/2024 06:02

Amazing.

Big implications for the Greens who have loads of similar cases pending.

Also for this other case concerning the Lib Dems:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5109461-parliamentary-staffer-taking-lib-dems-to-tribunal?reply=136980515

Labour are very lucky that no members I have seen has taken them to court yet even though there is obvious sexism over this in the party. It is such a big thing to do they rely on a culture of fear to crush victims.

With another win we can hope that more people out there get ready to take a stand against this.

Parliamentary staffer taking Lib Dems to Tribunal | Mumsnet

'My employment tribunal claim argues that I was discriminated against and harassed by my employer, the Liberal Democrat MP, as well as the Liberal Dem...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5109461-parliamentary-staffer-taking-lib-dems-to-tribunal?reply=136980515

RedToothBrush · 22/07/2024 23:55

I should also add that over the years I've been contacted a few times on the subject of Natalie Bird via PM. (It crops up in this thread).

The last one I got was saying how she wasn't a nice person and her conduct was poor. Was about six months ago the last one. Always when I've posted about the case.

Now I've always taken with a pinch of salt and never got too involved. I have no idea who has been sending the messages nor any idea of what Natalie is like. I just know from a third party about bits and pieces early on. But I've always found it curious that there was never a shortage of random PMs to me from anonymous accounts about it. I've always felt they've been phishing so I've always been cautious of them.

Its been clear that various parties associated with the case have kept a close eye on MN about it. There's definitely LD lurkers who have been heavily invested in the case - from what perspective I have no idea nor what their intentions to me were.

Bottom line here: The LDs could have saved themselves some money if they'd listened internally that there was a problem with the way Natalie had been treated.

Will be interesting to know how it gets settled.

Imnobody4 · 22/07/2024 23:42

That's really good news, perhaps a General election has clarified their thinking.

RedToothBrush · 22/07/2024 23:34

One further point: what action is going to be taken to deal with particular individuals who are named and responsible and remain within the party?

Their actions did not just impact on Natalie Bird directly. There was indirect consequences.

Will the LDs be requiring others to be re-educated or will they be removed from the party for their conduct?

RedToothBrush · 22/07/2024 23:26

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/07/2024 19:49

Update: Natalie was in court today. The Lib Dems aren't defending as they admit to having breached the Equality Act in their treatment of her. Adjourned to 20 August for costs and damages hearing.

x.com/nat_freespeech/status/1815403706256351464?s=46&t=SPorwN-mokktL467rcZ57g

^The @LibDems have unusually put in a judgement against themselves and admitted every aspect of my claims against the party.
Costs and damages are still to be resolved.^

tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/natalie-bird-v-liberal-democrat-party?utm_campaign=post&triedRedirect=true

Wow that's fab news. I will pass it on to my contact. Obviously been following this one with interest for some years...

ArabellaScott · 22/07/2024 22:56

Great, thank you.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/07/2024 22:44

I think this was a pre trial hearing, so as the Lib Dems have accepted they have discriminated against her, the next round of was going to be the hearing proper, but now will be the costs/damages hearing. So I imagine the judgment will follow that.

ArabellaScott · 22/07/2024 22:31

Wow. The dominoes continue to topple.

I wonder if there will be a judgement to read, does anyone know?

UpThePankhurst · 22/07/2024 21:18

Very interesting to see the impact of previous court cases beginning to take effect. There may be absolute belief of being right in a cruel and wrong world, but also an admission of knowing that the case will go against them, and the consequences are not worth it.

That's a huge step in the right direction.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 22/07/2024 20:56

Tribunal tweets said there was a second GC Lib Dem up in court alleging discrimination this week. Anyone know who that is?

Omlettes · 22/07/2024 20:27

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/07/2024 19:49

Update: Natalie was in court today. The Lib Dems aren't defending as they admit to having breached the Equality Act in their treatment of her. Adjourned to 20 August for costs and damages hearing.

x.com/nat_freespeech/status/1815403706256351464?s=46&t=SPorwN-mokktL467rcZ57g

^The @LibDems have unusually put in a judgement against themselves and admitted every aspect of my claims against the party.
Costs and damages are still to be resolved.^

tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/natalie-bird-v-liberal-democrat-party?utm_campaign=post&triedRedirect=true

That is such great news thanks!
Step by step case by case its getting done.

Omlettes · 22/07/2024 20:18

Its quite extraordinary but the Lib Dems are even more unhinged on gender ideology than the Greens.
Of all the replies I've had from the political parties, the Lib Dems were the most patronising unprofessional and downright idiotic.
They must be feeling quite defensive over the donations from PB manufacturers in the current climate.
That aside they remind me far too much of the villagers in the film Hot Fuzz.
Scratch the grimacing smiley surface and they are batshit insane.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/07/2024 20:16

This thread is a wild ride - rereading. It's worth seeing how mad the Lib Dems were are

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/07/2024 19:59

I think this is great for women in the Lib Dems and also other parties such as Labour and the Greens.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/07/2024 19:58

I don't know tbh. I imagine at one point they weren't going to admit to any wrongdoing.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 22/07/2024 19:56

That's excellent news! The message is getting through.

Why did it take so long to get to court?