Parents who won't 'affirm' 8 yr old gender change being referred to social services

What if your child wanted to be transabled, would parents be expected to send him or her off to Mexico to get a leg amputated? What's the difference?

There has been some overlap as outlined in Julie Bindel's 2003 article:

(extract)
"Today the best-known psychiatrist dealing with transsexualism is Dr Russell Reid, who runs a private practice as well as working in the NHS. In 2000 Reid was involved in controversy over the condition known as Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD), where sufferers can experience a desperate urge to rid themselves of a limb. Reid was one of the psychiatrists who referred two patients with BDD to a surgeon for leg amputations. ‘When I first heard of people wanting amputations it seemed bizarre in the extreme,’ he said in a television documentary at the time, ‘but then I thought, "I see transsexuals and they want healthy parts of their body removed in order to adjust to their idealised body image," and so I think that was the connection for me. I saw that people wanted to have their limbs off with equally as much degree of obsession and need.’

But to what degree should doctors be acquiescent to the ‘obsessions’ and ‘needs’ of patients; should there be a point at which they are duty-bound to say no? I asked Dr Reid how he decides on the suitability of surgery for a GID sufferer. ‘The patient makes their own diagnosis, and I confirm or refute it. If I am happy that they are serious about considering surgery in the future, I will prescribe hormones and expect them to live as a woman (or a man, if it is a female-to-male patient) for at least a year. If, after that time, they are mentally stable, living a reasonable and public life and functioning as a whole human being, and if the hormones have been effective, I would consider them worthy of surgery." (continues)

archive.li/1bcWN#selection-287.0-295.716

Ht OldCrone

2007 Guardian article re Russell Reid:
'Sex change doctor guilty of misconduct'
(extract)
The UK's best-known expert on transsexualism was today found guilty of serious professional misconduct for rushing five patients into sex-changing treatments, but avoided being struck off.

The General Medical Council ruled that Russell Reid, who retired last year, could only return to work under strict conditions imposed for the next 12 months that mean he can only work under strict supervision.

He must provide the GMC with a record of his treatments of any patients with gender identity disorders such as transsexualism every three months.

The disciplinary panel ruled that Dr Reid must no longer prescribe patients with sex-changing hormones at the first appointment, nor without a firm diagnosis that they are transsexual or a proper psychiatric assessment.

The panel determined that the consultant psychiatrist was too quick to provide patients with hormones and to refer them for genital surgery." (continues)
www.theguardian.com/society/2007/may/25/health.medicineandhealth2

Wiki extracts:
"Britain's primary lobbying organization for transgender and transsexual people, Press for Change, was quoted as saying that Reid received support during the process from more than 150 patients as well as additional experts in the area. Furthermore, as many as 462 of Dr. Reid' s ex patients posted positive comments during and after his hearing on a blogspot In Support of Dr. Russell Reid, and still continue to leave positive feedback.

Reid was a member of an expert committee set up by the Royal College of Psychiatrists to draw up new UK care guidelines on the treatment of Gender identity disorder. He stepped down as a member of the group in the wake of the GMC inquiry.

Reid was also interviewed as part of a BBC documentary, Complete Obsession, dealing with patients seeking limb amputations"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Reid

What if your child wanted to be transabled, would parents be expected to send him or her off to Mexico to get a leg amputated? What's the difference?

By the by, what professional qualifications does Tara Hewitt hold to qualify for a Band 8A [44 - 51k] role in the NHS?

James Kirkup in Spectator lead article October 2018 reported:

'Trans Rights have Gone Wrong:
The new gender orthodoxy allows no room for dissent'

(extract)
"What explains the disproportionate number of girls (child ‘assigned female at birth’, to use the approved term) who are starting a journey that can lead to hormone treatment, then binding and ultimately removing their breasts? Is it possible that this is simply part of a wider crisis of mental health among girls?

I don’t know, and neither do the doctors and scientists who study this issue. If you talk to the clinicians at the Tavistock Clinic in London, the NHS centre for the treatment of gender-variant children, they’ll tell you that all the factors I mentioned may be at work, but the evidence base is still incomplete, that they need more time and data before offering explanations. (They’ll also tell you that quite a lot of the children referred to them as ‘transgender’ will in time ‘desist’ and decide to live in their original gender.)

The government now intends to commission research into all this. You might think that sounds sensible and mundane. You would be wrong.

According to Tara Hewitt, founder of the Trans Equality Legal Initiative (TELI), prominent campaigner for transgender rights and an adviser to numerous public bodies including the NHS, the proposed research is ‘absurd and offensive’. The project should be ‘dropped in the bin — it’s simply not an inquiry that needs to happen,’ Hewitt reckons.

This is the quintessential trans-rights response to scrutiny: even looking for facts about children’s welfare is transphobic. Just accept that trans girls are girls and trans women are women. End of debate." (continues)

www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/trans-rights-have-gone-wrong/

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3385533-Prominant-campaigning-role-of-Tara-Hewitt-NHS-TELI-Social-work-universities-etc

By the by, what professional qualifications does Tara Hewitt hold to qualify for a Band 8A [44 - 51k] role in the NHS?

twitter.com/Tara_Hewitt/status/1128395303273553920

This thread from last year has significance in the consideration of Duty of Care of the State (Social Care, Health & law) towards vulnerable children & the impact that transactivism has on Safeguading & Child Protection Frameworks.

TransgenderTrend article outlines the key issues of a very important recent case concerning children in Care:

'Parents who Socially Transitioned Two Young Children Win Court Battle'
May 14, 2019
'A High Court judge has granted permission to a local authority to withdraw care proceedings against a foster family with two young boys socially transitioned as girls. The full judgment can be seen here.
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWFC/HCJ/2019/30.html

The older child (“Child R”) is the couple’s own child. Now aged 13 this child was fully socially transitioned at age 7. The second child (“Child H”) is adopted and at age 6 is also fully socially transitioned. Another foster child (age unknown) who was with the family for three and a half years and left in 2007, also had gender identity issues.

Care proceedings were instigated by Lancashire County Council based on concerns from social workers about the treatment of the children with gender identity issues, along with a referral to children’s services by the school regarding concerns of fabricated and induced illness in respect of four of the children. There was also a catalogue of hospitalisations for one child. Lancashire CC subsequently sought to withdraw care proceedings, which was what this hearing was about.

The judge, in assessing further evidence from experts, concluded that there was no case to answer: the hospitalisations were the result of normal childhood accidents and parents of fostered or adopted children could be expected to seek professional help for behavioural and emotional problems in children who had suffered previous abuse and neglect.

A case involving three children with gender identity issues is unprecedented in itself, but the facts of this case raise further serious questions. It is important to analyse the information available from the court hearing because the case is likely to set a precedent in the family courts on cases involving parents who socially transition their very young children. (continues)

concludes:

We are left with the question of who selected this particular “expert” to present evidence, and to reflect on how easy it is to sweep aside all normal safeguarding and child protection concerns when the issue is ‘transgender,’ with evidence that would not stand up in any other circumstances. Likewise, behaviour from parents which would arouse suspicion in any other case, is transformed into ‘best practice’ uniquely in the case of ‘transgender children.’

Safeguarding and child protection was an issue highlighted by the Tavistock clinicians who spoke anonymously to David Bell, and was reflected, albeit in a watered-down version, in the recently published Tavistock GIDS Action Plan:

14. I recommend that the trust is unequivocal in holding the position that simply bringing a child to the service for exploration of gender dysphoria does not constitute a safeguarding issue. However, it is reasonable to acknowledge that this can often be a complex population with presentations that can require the need for further deep exploration.

One of the clinicians who resigned from the Tavistock for ethical reasons gave us this comment:

“In my experience, whenever a case got too close to child protection issues, I was just advised to step back and let the local teams take over – i.e. to offer no advice either way. We weren’t supposed to offer an opinion on whether the gender identity might be related to child protection issues, even when it very clearly was.”

This family court decision sets a dangerous precedent. There must be no area of childcare handed over to ideologues, no approach which casts aside established knowledge of child development and psychology, and no treatment of children given a free pass because in this one area we have decided that normal rules do not apply. No child should be placed outside normal safeguarding and duty of care. Put simply, this judgment creates a loophole and puts vulnerable children at risk.

www.transgendertrend.com/parents-socially-transitioned-two-young-children-win-court-battle/

threads:
Meeting today:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3586228-Important-Standing-For-Women-House-of-Lords-Meeting-today-First-Do-No-Harm-The-ethics-of-transgender-healthcare-hosted-Lord-Moonie-focus-on-the-Duty-of-Care

Discussing the implications of the case:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3583675-Foster-children-3-and-7-transitioning-Times-article

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3584443-lbc-debate-on-s-times-foster-children-article

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3582478-Judge-over-rules-social-services-concerns

I came to ask the question of YouTube whilst reading an essay by Luka Griffen, 'Young & Transgender' which features in the book:

'TRANS: Exploring Gender Identity and Gender Dysphoria: A Guide for Everyone (including professionals)'

There are very useful introductory chapters by Dr Az Hakeem
(see thread where mentioned:www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3303573-This-is-what-the-Portman-Clinic-had-to-say-about-Gender-Transition-in-2002]]

There are also essays by a number of people with different perspectives. One of these is a transman Luka Griffen who set legal precedent in Australia in obtaining a testosterone prescription as a teenager.

In his essay Luka describes the discomfort felt as a young person and then as a teenager during puberty and the associated physical changes

Luka identifies the internet and YouTube specifically as been how he made sense of his feelings. referring to
‘How I knew I was trans’ , ‘Quiz: are you trans?’ and a YouTube video called,‘ How I knew I was transgender (and some advice on coming out)’ by Skylar Kergil which Luka describes as resonating completely with all of his feelings.

Luka then describes a moment of epiphany,
"I felt so much relief. Because somebody actually knew how I was feeling, it helped give me a new understanding of myself. Some of the confusion, frustration, and anxiety was easier to deal with, just knowing there were other people in the world who felt like me. It was like a light had been turned on in my mind. I knew I was a transgender man, and I knew that I didn’t want to be called by my birth name."

I think its an important collection of essays which give insight into a range of perspectives & experiences as well as some professional expertise. The context of each essay is very important

source:
www.amazon.co.uk/TRANS-Exploring-Identity-Dysphoria-Pulling-ebook/dp/B079NKJ22B?tag=mumsnetforum-21

Holy fuck. The sooner that youtube, Facebook and all the other social media outlets adopt guidelines for responsible conduct in the provision of what amounts to professional advice the better.

This is currently the top featured YouTube response to the search, 'Am I transgender?':

by 'The Transition Channel'
'Watching this video can help you answer the question, "Am I transgender?" This video was created to help you determine whether or not you are transgender, specifically female to male, female to "whatever," or transmasculine. ("Female to whatever/FtW" is phrase inclusive of all gender fluidity identities such as those who feel gender queer, bigender, two spirit, agender, neutrois, eunuch, etc.)'

It states on the video:
'I am earning my PHD in human sexuality education and have my masters degree to work as a mental health professional'

Also in comments underneath, 'I work as a mental health professional, as I stated, and am working on my dissertation at this time; therefore, I may not have much time to read through all of the comments.'

Also in serach for 'Am I transgender?'
From UK, GenderGP Helen Webberley's video:

Do you think it's related to children getting on social media from a younger age?

"Being bloody awful to each other on social media" is something I've observed directly in Y5 for the last three years. I've had kids in Y4 ask if they can follow me on Instagram. I know Y3s who make their own YouTube videos. There are age restrictions for a reason and honestly, I think schools are pretty tired of reminding parents. Some kids are all over the internet, unwatched, running into all kinds of nonsense. The way in is gaming, for most of them - starts off benign and the more you dive in the more you find other ideas. That's not necessarily a bad thing but there's no way of knowing what you're going to run into and the agenda behind it. Adults struggle to filter this stuff - how are 8yos supposed to?

It is particularly worrying when even therapists spout this rubbish

darahoffmanfox.com/ask-gender-therapist-know-im-transgender/

Type 'Am I Transgender?' into YouTube search.

Many of the more popular results relate to young F2M.

Common statement, 'If you're asking the question, you probably are'

Do you think it's related to children getting on social media from a younger age?

Zuckerberg/ Gates etc don't allow their kids access to the net until their late teens - there's a reason for that - the net is now weaponised to deliberately make people anxious because they are easily manipulated when undermined - just as in coercive control. They can then be recruited/ groomed to buy more or for an ideology or into being sex trafficked -or /and

So yes is the answer to your question. The net enables male violence and grooms the trusting - on a mass scale- and money and exploitation is behind it all

Really interesting and worrying thread.
Nationally rates of serious self harm are increasing in children age 10-14 and decreasing in 20-24. Do you think it's related to children getting on social media from a younger age?

Yhreadreader version of Transgender Trend's twitter thread of parental descriptions and experiences:

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1022884731476746240.html

YY Prawn. I'm of the generation where anorexia was the chosen method of self-harm for teens. The next generation on (when I was a young lecturer in the 90s) went for cutting. Now we have ROGD.

THANK YOU, I'm glad I'm not the only one to have connected the dots on this (I was beginning to think I was going daft). At the start of my working life I was in touch with many CAMHS practitioners and visiting secure units regularly. At that time fully half of the patients they saw in my study area were anorexics, but they were already starting to be concerned about the rise in self-harm (and I had to screen out both as part of my study). I've been around on the internet for a very long time and saw that rise myself even after I'd stopped working in mental health - younger people were coming online and learning about what was usually only seen in the severely depressed. Even I danced around the edges of it; even with all the information I had in front of me and being into my twenties - a difficult patch of life had me very carefully wondering if hurting myself was the answer. It was madly seductive, even with my incredibly messed-up, scarred for life best friend right in front of me. I went on to explore lots of other things - different sexualities and fetishes, alternative religions and so on. I had time to find out who I really was, and I mostly did it through reading and talking. YouTube wasn't much of a thing, neither was Instagram - these very visual media make things much more immediate. I think now kids have enormous pressure to build their "brand" from the moment they get a phone. Now I work with kids and I see 8yos building that brand.

I don't recall precisely when I first detected "trans-creep" - the idea that a nod must always be made to trans identity in the name of inclusivity - but I see it everywhere now, particularly in the Young Adult book trade. In most cases it's not malicious, it's a genuine desire to reach all those lost and lonely kids, but it's made from a position of ignorance. Lesbian and bisexual fiction for teens is tough to find in the UK and usually conflated with gnc or trans ideas.

No PM :-(

I honestly thing we need a more Laingian approach to a lot of mental health issues - the problem is not the individual, but society.

Massive YES to this. Laing’s work seems a bit out of fashion but it’s always seemed uncomfortably close to the truth to me

(I PMd you but I don’t think it sent...)

YY Prawn. I'm of the generation where anorexia was the chosen method of self-harm for teens. The next generation on (when I was a young lecturer in the 90s) went for cutting. Now we have ROGD.

I hope that pointing out that all of these are forms of self harm doesn't sound flippant or victim-blaming - it's not meant to be. I honestly thing we need a more Laingian approach to a lot of mental health issues - the problem is not the individual, but society. So hit by the cognitive dissonance that comes from entering puberty as a girl and realising that while you thought all along that you were a human being, society now sees you as a disposable sex object, all your rage and confusion and fear has to go somewhere - and that somewhere is inwards, against yourself. But the form the rage takes is socially malleable and varies from one decade to another.

Cutting was unheard of in my youth. Now it's very common. Both DS2 and his girlfriend have a history of self harm. He had a potentially life limiting illness and her family were abusive. Cutting themselves was what troubled young people often did. They're in their early 20s.

When I was a teenager it was anorexia and class A drugs, and sometimes both. The young, particularly in affluent societies, have often suffered great angst. How they express that angst changes from generation to generation.

In the case of gender identity, the fact that, once medication is started, the young people affected are being steered into a future of sterility, no or diminished sexual function or pleasure, and lifelong consumption of strong drugs with lots of serious side effects leads me to think that this is one of the worst manifestations.

My DS and his girlfriend, like other young people I know, have recovered from cutting and now have nothing more damaging than scarring of their arms and/or legs to affect their futures. The same is not true for many, maybe most, detransioners.

I'm a cp sw. I'm not seeing anything different down here but we did get sent a ropey article the other day. I will not be supporting the 'transitioning' of a minor though

The social contagion risks for vulnerable people with regards self-harming behaviours are well established and recognised.

They underpin the Samaritans' guidance for media reportings of suicide.

www.samaritans.org/media-centre/media-guidelines-reporting-suicide/best-practice-suicide-reporting-tips

Cutting is a behaviour which I believe has a social contagion element. I have no links at all on this but I think it used to be far rarer. A child I know began this self harm behaviour after a session to school which mentioned it.

Yes OldCRone I'm sorry though for a slight derail- I had meant to post it on the thread about ROGD and schools.
There are a lot of overlaps between the two threads.

Interesting article R0wantrees.

This discussion sounds familiar.

“It makes you wonder if maybe bulimia wasn’t a new eating disorder, that it was always there and people just didn’t notice it or talk about it before your paper came out,” I offer.

Russell demurs politely. If the hidden afflicted numbered as overwhelmingly high as they now seem, surely the condition would have made itself known well before he — or anyone, for that matter — identified it. “You might suggest it required somebody to come along and put two and two together before people felt safe talking about bulimia, but I don’t believe that.

“Until then,” he continued, “the disorder was extremely rare. But after 1980, it became widespread in a very short period of time. Once it was described, and I take full responsibility for that with my paper, there was a common language for it. And knowledge spreads very quickly.”