Trans Park Run Deletion

By way of example,
(from Wikipedia)
The only countries with permissive gun legislation are: Albania, Austria, Chad, Republic of Congo, Honduras, Micronesia, Namibia, Nigeria, Pakistan, Philippines, Senegal, Tanzania, the United States, Yemen and Zambia, although several other countries like Canada and the Czech Republic, despite theoretically being restrictive, are shall-issue countries.

Yet despite Donald Trump's recent suggestion, we don't have permissive gun laws in the UK.

NB I am illustrating a principle, not comparing those advocating for for transgender rights to those who support the NRA!

The use of precedent in implementing transgender policies seems key, both in sport and elsewhere... in most interviews I have heard by those advocating for self-id in changes for the GRA (for example) the list of countries who have already done so seems always referenced...

But we don't in other areas of legislation use this as justification.

Colour me astounded.

Oh and Mosier worked to change IOC rules

Colour me shocked.

"Some people have surgery, some take hormones, and others, like Romer, transition socially but with no medical intervention. “None of those ways are more valid ways of being transgender than any other ways,” Mosier said."

You will be unsurprised to learn that Mosier is a TIM

Absolutely.

Here's an article about TIMs running in the Boston Marathon. If you can be bothered to read to the end, you'll see that Stevie Romer only just made the women's qualifying time. Romer has taken no hormones, just grown his hair and started wearing make up.

www.runnersworld.com/news/a19742832/boston-marathon-policies-transgender-runners/

He wouldn't have qualified if he had entered as a man. But he entered as a woman and took a place from one. This is why this stuff matters.

Boston was designed to be the precedent that said 'males don't always win' #weseeyou

“In sport, men, women, transpeople, the disabled, young, old; they're all equally valued

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Fuck me thats funny

RatRolyPoly
Did you ever have time to read the interview with Delia Johnston that I linked to upthread? I think it's really worth reading.

The evolution of implementation of sporting policies that are inclusive for people who are transgender is worth exploring.

For example, Boston marathon allowed competitors to self id this year. The interviewer linked tries to establish the basis for this:

Presumably once Boston sets a precedent?

ABC News article
"Several other major marathons said they have no official policies but are taking a similar approach to Boston. Organizers of the Chicago, New York City, London and Los Angeles marathons all said they honor the gender that runners submit during sign-ups.
"We want to be inclusive and sensitive to all of our participants," said Carey Pinkowski, Chicago Marathon executive race director. "At this point, we don't feel that we need to require legal or medical records or anything along those lines."
But there's still a wrinkle: Many races, including Boston, New York and Chicago, require runners to show IDs with the same names and genders as their application forms, which can be an obstacle for trans athletes who haven't legally changed their personal information. Race officials said they haven't fielded complaints but will monitor their policies to make sure they're inclusive.
In elite competition, debate has mostly focused on transgender women, who typically require surgery or medication to lower their testosterone levels. Olympic officials issued new rules in 2016 saying trans women can compete if their testosterone levels stay beneath a certain limit, and many professional races now follow similar rules."
In response to the March blog post, some commenters said transgender women have an unfair physical advantage and shouldn't bump other women from qualifying.

Stevie Romer, a transgender woman from Woodstock, Illinois, says she registered for Boston as a woman because that's what she is. Although she hasn't done anything to lower her testosterone levels, Romer legally changed her gender, grew her hair out and started living openly as a woman more than a year ago.

"To be able to experience it as me was really, really important," she said. "I've been a runner since as long as I can remember. I love running, but I just happen to be transgender."

abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/boston-marathons-trans-women-compete-women-54320495

SwimEngland's policy of gender selfid, was withdrawn subject to reconsideration after being challenged by the #ManFriday campaign.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3176098-I-am-about-to-ID-as-a-man
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3199430-I-am-about-to-self-ID-as-a-man-the-update
www.feministcurrent.com/2018/04/09/interview-uk-women-self-identifying-men-challenge-proposed-changes-gra-part-manfriday/

Huh?

As Pratchet astutely observed, Rat's posts are pure sophistry to confuse and deflect and reverse. Transactivist 101.

....es, not unkind to females.

There is no coherence at all to the suggestion that males should compete in women's sports. All Rat has is 'stop being unkind'. Of course, by that Rat means 'unkind to mal

Nope, but as a disabled athlete you could compete as able-bodied. My point is that sport has no interest in maintaining an arbitrary binary is it does not help achieve its aims. There is no real further comparison here. But you can concede my point if you like.

Huh? The point is that people shouldn’t just be able to enter the physically and socially disadvantaged category (disabled or female) just because they are slower or weaker versions of the other category (able-bodied or male).

I've written this somewhere else but Rat's sophistry deserves it too.

*Male and female describe reproductive role.

Whatever your brain says, it doesn't change your reproductive role.

Sure, dysphoria is real. Dysphoria doesn't change your reproductive role.

Dysphoria is not identity. It is dysphoria. Sex dysphoria is unhappiness with reproductive role. It doesn't change your reproductive role. If certain males think they are females because of certain personality traits they possess, it simply means that those personality traits have been incorrectly described as female, when in reality they exist in male brains too.*

Reproductive role is written into every cell in your body and affects physical abilities, capacity and performance. This is why males should not compete in female sports.

“Sport” is not a person, Rat.

(the football thing is a red herring - mixed football up to age 18 now - trans girls would be welcome as boys are already playing girls)

No that’s not true - my dd plays for girls team in a girls league

Such hyperbole would be hilarious if it wasn't actually unnecessarily scaring women

In what way will their future in sport not be destroyed? You mean if they're one of the lucky ones who will win silver and bronze (so long as there's only one trans-identifying male in their category)

“In sport, men, women, transpeople, the disabled, young, old; they're all equally valued.”

Nope.
Men are valued more.

As an able-bodied person I could not enter the disabled category just because I have an innate preference for cake

Nope, but as a disabled athlete you could compete as able-bodied. My point is that sport has no interest in maintaining an arbitrary binary is it does not help achieve its aims. There is no real further comparison here. But you can concede my point if you like.

they have to accept that their future in sport has been destroyed

Such hyperbole would be hilarious if it wasn't actually unnecessarily scaring women.

I'd love to keep chatting but I have to go and thrash a load of my fellow sportspeople in a tournament. Wish me luck!

So there are disabled athletes in the able-bodied category; the binary is not strictly maintained.

Yes but there are not able-bodied people in the disabled category (the more physically & socially disadvantaged one).

As an able-bodied person I could not enter the disabled category just because I have an innate preference for cake which makes me fatter and slower than other able-bodied people my age and sex.

They have not decided this at all. Most sports bodies are agonising over it.

As well they should be; it's not an easy task. But they have decided, in that for now they have a decision, and in future they may change their mind. That's that flexibility I was talking about again.

Sorry rat but that's not true.

Everything I've said is true Scabbers. Sports which segregate do so to ensure safe and meaningful competition for all participants.

In equestrian they have decided that remaining mixed does not in any way compromise the safe or competitive nature of competing for any participant.