Evidence of misandry on Feminist chat.

In the event that there are any men lurking who genuinely do want to help stop male violence rather than just troll feminist spaces wasting the time of the women in them, the way that you can help is to talk about violence towards women and the sexist attitudes that contribute to it to other men. Not to women, especially not feminists. We already know that there's a problem. Go talk to other men - the ones who're the problem are far more likely to listen to you than to us.

Not sure what the equivalent of a Hail Mary is for the sin of hurting a man's feelings.

I suppose we'd have to ask a Worshipful Penis for something appropriate. I think I'll bunk off school when we have that lesson.

If a man pats my head (metaphorically) and tells me to leave him to fix my computer, I count that as misogyny - he doesn't think that I can do it because I'm just a woman. The cleaning thing is the same in reverse, so surely must by misandry - just because it benefits the patriarchy I don't think it makes it any different

Sorry I copy and pasted the wrong quote!

I’d suggest the women who are doing it are the ones who treat the men in their lives like helpless children incapable of finding the washing machine

Basically..
"Yes it is very different" !

I'll try to expand, fixing a computer is important complicated work that only He has the intelligence and talents to understand. It's also a one off. Man's job. Would come with a good salary in a work setting.

Cleaning up dirt or doing washing we all know is very easy. Very boring, repetitive and constant. Very low paid if done professionally. Woman's job.

Men often use the "can't see dirt" to get out of doing something so beneath them and women go along with it. I mean let's come off it of course they can see it, but it's not followed by a response to assume they should do anything about it. It all works out very comfortably for the man and he is not insulted.
The art of strategic incompetence may even be at play.

It is also not offensive to men to be accused of "not seeing dirt". (unless it is, then they won't be, because they'd be the clean type).

So in your two examples, computer fixing and cleaning, both adhere to the social order of men undertaking important duties, women boring background duties.

You are doing something though PatriarchyPersonified, but I would also suggest that you treat women as your equal - which I'm sure you already do.

Actions and words are powerful when combined.

There was a thread on AIBU about a woman who after several abusive relationships said she didn't like men anymore and should she seek help for feeling like this.

A lot of posters could understand her thoughts about it but some piled in and told her she needed counselling and that she was daft to think this way.

Also I think that complaining about wife work is valid, and there were two long threads on the issue, in Feminist Chat and they very interesting discussion. Mostly the replies on Chat/AIBU suggest the wife 'train' the partner because, of course, he doesn't have a brain and is incapable of doing it himself. I find that incredibly patronising to men.

Bertrand

As a man, how can I do something about male violence?

Other than not commit it myself (I don't), and encourage my son to not either, (he is too young but when he is old enough I will), and not associate or encourage anybody who thinks that it's ok?

Am I still collectively responsible, regardless of my behaviour?

I think you're supposed to do some kind of penance and promise never to feminist in public again, LangCleg. Not sure what the equivalent of a Hail Mary is for the sin of hurting a man's feelings.

If you're a shop rather than a person, then sure, feel free to worry about the category of person statistically most likely to steal small easily hidden items from your shelves.

Meanwhile women will continue to exercise appropriate caution when dealing with the category of people most likely to rape and murder us. Especially the ones who raise red flags in terms of making us wonder why they're so determined to stop us from discussing the situation with each other.

For women who may be feeling guilty about having basic pattern recognition skills and exercising appropriate caution based on them (rather than our visiting MRAs, who honestly it's a waste of time engaging with) this is useful reading.

kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-schrodinger%E2%80%99s-rapist-or-a-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/

Also, I'm still wondering why I should consider myself deservedly rebuked if it's deemed I have committed offences of misandry.

Cos, y'know, I don't give a shiny shit if I have.

“Women are more likely than men to defraud or shoplift. I don't view every single woman as a potential fraudster/thief just to be on the safe side.”

1. Do they make up 90% of fraudsters/thieves?
2. Might you end up in hospital if you call it wrong?

Look, I understand that many men find it hard to be part of the sex that commits 90% of violence. It must be grim. SO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

becomes justification for tarring all men as potentially violent

Because women's lives are an ongoing, background risk assessment, you nitwit.

Swivelchair

I agree.

I was using it as an example of using statistics to justify prejudice against an entire group.

Women are more likely than men to defraud or shoplift. I don't view every single woman as a potential fraudster/thief just to be on the safe side.

aware of what could be described as a small patch of festering misandry in my thinking, if that is what it is when I read the news through the filter of "Fucking men, here we go again!" and initially suspect foul play by the male partner when a woman is found dead or reported missing

That's statistics, not "misandry". The police will look at the partner (or ex partner) first too, because statistically speaking that's who's most likely to have done it.

Patriarchy - if your daughter was going on a blind date, would you want her to be more wary if it was with a man or a woman?

I am aware that this is a trick question, because anyone who says either they would want her to be equally wary or more wary of the woman is being disingenuous

Sorry patodp, i have a hangover and I’m not following- can you explain a bit more what you mean as it sounds interesting?

Larry, I find that so interesting (the reference to Animal Farm), and a bit of a shame. In contrast, I find these boards useful fora (?) for a broad and diverse discussion in which it is possible to have different opinions coexisting harmoniously, unlike many other groups I have dipped my toe in and found too intimidating to contribute to. But then I am quite a tender flower.
Before motherhood (and MNing, which coincided in my case) I was blissfully blind to patriarchal oppression, having been lucky to have been surrounded by fairly 'enlightened' men, joining absolutely zero dots, refusing to see a bigger picture and hiding behind cultural relativism, both in the UK and abroad. NAMALT would have been my staple response. The great leveller and window into women's lived experience which is MN has made me so distressed on behalf of women over the years, and aware of what could be described as a small patch of festering misandry in my thinking, if that is what it is when I read the news through the filter of "Fucking men, here we go again!" and initially suspect foul play by the male partner when a woman is found dead or reported missing. Is that what it is, or is it just a recognition of aggression and arrogance born out of male privilege, and an acknowledgement of male pattern violence?

Actually, this is quite the opposite of misandry. It is patriarch compliance, it is upholding the gendered hierarchy where men are too above/too important to take part in domestic wife work.

If a man pats my head (metaphorically) and tells me to leave him to fix my computer, I count that as misogyny - he doesn't think that I can do it because I'm just a woman. The cleaning thing is the same in reverse, so surely must by misandry - just because it benefits the patriarchy I don't think it makes it any different.

I would like to call people on the whole '90% of violent crime is commited by men' thing that then becomes justification for tarring all men as potentially violent without qualification.

It really doesn't. It does mean that since we can't tell, it's wise to be cautious

I wonder if the same people would be happy if we applied that argument to black people in the US for example? They are statistically more likely to commit crimes, therefore can we describe all black people as potential criminals without any qualification?

As has been pointed out in discussion here before, it's actually a combination of police arresting, and courts treating more harshly when a person is black, plus poverty. Unless you think men are poorer than women (untrue) and that men are disproportionately arrested and punished compared to women (also untrue) they aren't comparable.

That link he posted does answer my earlier question about who raised the bat signal encouraging MRAs to invade.

Bertrand

I do see your point.

But the statement 'all men are potentially violent' is no more valid than the statement 'all black people are potentially criminals' or 'all women are potentially thieves'.

They are all statements of fact based on statistics, but they don't really help us in any way, because (especially in the black people and women examples) it's easy to see that they far too simplistic and one dimensional.

KingHaggis- aah, shit, you’re another one. I thought you might actually be OK from another thread.

Why can't we all just get along?

I’d suggest the women who are doing it [misandry] are the ones who treat the men in their lives like helpless children incapable of finding the washing machine
Which is another convenient myth that fits neatly into patriarchy. Not misandry but compliance to existing social order keeping women as the servants of men.

I assumed Worita was genuine... no idea now.

Anyway this point:
the low-level "men don't see dirt" is clearly misandry
Actually, this is quite the opposite of misandry. It is patriarch compliance, it is upholding the gendered hierarchy where men are too above/too important to take part in domestic wife work.

Noticing dirt is the female domian it's up to females to sort out the dirt, and pretending that men just can't see dirt reinforces this notion conveniently.