How women act differently in the presence of men

Seven I think I might have been to the same university (as a post-grad).

Good point - I can believe that they don't want to moderate their behaviour, and therefore prefer to 'keep the girls out'. I think this starts very young - I remember the boys at my primary school chanting "all join on for - no girls allowed."

Seven - I think you might be onto something.

You see I always assumed that men didn't want women in certain jobs because of sexist assumptions that they wouldn't be able to do it properly.

But actually that might not be the main reason at all. It might be as simple as they don't want any stinky girls around spoiling their fun.

Hmmm

I was at a v male uni as well, oubliette, it was a science one and full of geeky blokes in heavy metal tshirts and that was just fine

BUT you made me think.

Is the reason many men push back against women getting into their "spaces" over the decades - so loads of jobs, professions, clubs, institutions and so on - is it because they don't want to have to moderate their behaviour "in the presence of ladies" sort of thing.

never thought of that before. That they might not want women eg working with them, not because they think they can't do it properly (although that came into it for lots of them) but because they didn't want to have to moderate their behaviour?

What a fascinating thread. I'm not sure I'd even considered whether or not my behaviour changed depending on whether I was in a predominantly male or predominantly female group.

I actually find being in a group of women harder than being in a group of men. I've been in a male-dominated environment ever since I went to university 20 years ago, so I wonder if this influences my behaviour (perhaps I've 'learnt' to interact with men).

Bertie - you re right. Men change their behaviour when no women are around. Often as you say in a crude, competitive and bantery way. Its actually pretty close to what you see boys doing in a playground. Some bullying and hazing of other men and some misogynistic and pretty vile comments and attitudes being expressed about women.

All female groups can be just as bad in a different way.

Men modify their behaviour when women join an all male group as do women when men join an all female group. Generally, I think for the better.

Sounds AWFUL.

No wonder so many people want to come and hang around with women instead...

Oh oh who was the poster who did the BRILLIANT categorising of male posters on a relationships thread once? And then got roundly flamed. But it was spot on, it was so so true.

IME men are much more crude, competitive and banter-y to a really ridiculous level when they think there are no women about and even the men who generally seem OK/respectful/tend to stand up for women when women are around can show another side. It's quite disturbing actually how quickly they revert to sexism. You can see it in army blokes when they get together, they tend to have a filter for "I'm alone with non-army people" but when one of their buddies turns up who they are used to only seeing in that all-male setting the filter goes quite quickly. Or the other way I've witnessed this kind of thing is after hours in an Irish bar abroad, I was the only woman at one part of the bar and I think they all thought I was drunk so they reverted then, quite jarring, a bloke who had previously been talking to me as a general human interested in another human suddenly started referring to all women as indiscriminate objects.

The programme Jackass is very close to how men behave with men too IME. I mean obviously it's not all "how hard can you whack your balls with this hammer" but it's all this weird stuff that 8 year olds do in the playground.

To be fair, there are a few male posters on MN who I didn't realise were men for years. They are regulars though, and immerse themselves in the culture of the boards, offering genuine support and commentary. There are also regulars who are "out" as men by their usernames, and are perfectly reasonable. There are, however, FAR too many blokes who drop in and expect to be given special attention for no other reason than that they are male. It depresses the hell out of me that there are so many women happy to indulge them- I can't help but think "Fuck off, we were having a nice time before it turned into The Penis Pander Show".

You see I find groups of women quite dull when it's all sitting around talking about cake and diets and stuff. I'm not naturally a "woman's woman" IYKWIM I've always got on well with people I guess but have always had a lot of male friends as well as female ones. Not to say that groups of men aren't dull but when I've been with them it's generally in the pub and everything seems more interesting when the beer's flowing

I think my body language is more relaxed TBH, thinking about it.

Although DH is here now and my body language is pretty relaxed - feet up on the sofa, laptop on lap and a bit of kitchen roll up one nostril as my nose keeps running Although, that's a family thing isn't it. Families are different irrespective of sex really, a different dynamic again entirely mostly.

I belong to a women-only expat support group where I live in Germany and it's really incredible. Husbands/partners are sometimes invited to things but the facebook page for example is so open and some of the meet ups too. It's a lifeline especially as some of the women are "trailing spouses" or there are issues particular to having a German husband or an Italian husband or just generally raising children away from family support and in an entirely new culture and language a lot of the time.

It's interesting isn't it.
For me the difference is in what gets talked about. Reminiscing about being flashed at, telling stories of awful blokes doing XYZ, and stuff around menstruation, menopause, damage after giving birth are things that get talked about in a different way when it's just women, to if it's a mixed group, if they even get talked about at all in a mixed group.

I have no idea how men behave when there are no women in sight, whether there is a difference or not etc and wouldn't presume to know TBH. Probably though, right?

I do behave differently too, but am more outspoken and relaxed in the company of men. Which is handy as work in very male environment. I put it down to my father being my most influential parent and loads and loads of bullying from girls at school. I find I am silenced by groups of other women and always feel judged and feel wanting in some way.

I was at an event this week, and tasked with getting interviews with several Famous People. Naturally, everyone wanted to talk to them, so I hovered politely nearby and waited for the current interviewer to finish before approaching.

And, every time I introduced myself to FP, I got cut off almost instantly by one or other tall, bolshy bloke with a cursory "Sorry to interrupt! So, Famous Person ..."

Not sure if this was because I am little, or female, or both. I can't imagine ever barging in like that myself, but watching other people, it seemed that most of the men thought nothing of it.

I don't think it's a matter of female / mixed groups being better or worse - preferring them or not - it's just different isn't it.

Which I genuinely didn't even notice until I had that conversation with my colleague in the bogs.

When a man walks into a previously all-female space, everyone goes quiet and looks at the man.

I can almost always tell if a poster is male or female from their posting style. So not just the ones who have usernames like AmazingDad or who announce themselves with "speaking as a man ... "

I actually feel more comfortable in male company (I'm female BTW). I left school with very few female friends and my friends at Uni were almost exclusively men. My all-female hall of residence was one of the most unfriendly bitchy horrifically judgy places on earth. Not fun. I worked in a hugely male-dominated profession, regularly being the only female in the meeting (and the youngest) and it never bothered me, I was always comfortable.

I usually feel very uneasy in the company of women, though over the years I've learned to modify my behaviours and moderate my natural personality in order to appeal to a more typical female way of 'being'. I feel judged and unwelcome when I'm new to a group of women.

My male friends are so much more fun. I seem to share their type of humour and the easiness with which we can be in each others company.

In my work I do notice the difference between male and female approaches. The most noticeable is a woman's heightened ability to read the mood and emotions of another person. I have been in meetings where my male boss is steadily crushing the trust of the client on the other side and with it our best way of negotiation and he will have no clue. Or juniors who are clearly struggling - men will just bat on and not see this. Women naturally feel it and provide pastoral care much more freely. I have also seen the hideous sexist nature of my profession and how engrained it is.....but that's a whole different thread.

I'm definitely aware that I act differently in the presence of men than women but I would say my natural self and comfort zone are much closer to the former than latter. I'm not sure what that says but thought I would share.