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Original poster

Following on from the TERF thread...

635 replies

CailinDana · 15/06/2014 21:28

Trying to get my head straight on this. Surely the whole malarkey around transwomen wanting to be recognised as women even though they have penises will eventually actually help to break down the idea of gender?

What I mean is, if a person with a penis can be labelled a woman simply because they want to be labelled in that way, surely gender becomes meaningless as it tells you nothing meaningful about a person except perhaps the clothes they like to wear?

This is a half-formed thought, feel free to develop/challenge.

OP posts:
Original poster
CailinDana · 17/06/2014 13:57

Also, for me, the only way I can begin to understand someone else is to understand their motivations, to get to the crux of what they think and believe. I honestly have no idea what you believe Kim, because so many of your answers contradict each other. Perhaps that's because your feelings are contradictory.

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Original poster
CailinDana · 17/06/2014 13:55

Sorry, shouldn't judge

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CailinDana · 17/06/2014 13:55

Your main point was that we shouldn't just all transpeople from the voices of a few vocal activists. Which is a fair point. But then when we ask you your perspective on the issues at hand (such as the changing rooms one) you refuse to answer. Which means we are none the wiser. So there's no point in coming on and complaining about us listening to the only people who have anything to say about it.

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kim147 · 17/06/2014 13:42

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kim147 · 17/06/2014 13:40

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Original poster
CailinDana · 17/06/2014 13:37

I've been on here for years too, and have had personal attacks. It sucks, but it happens online a lot in my experience. I don't use those personal attacks as sort of cloak of invisibility though that allows me to say whatever I like and then refuse to discuss it.

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kim147 · 17/06/2014 13:01

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ReallyFuckingFedUp · 17/06/2014 13:00

I used to regularly Kim, so as not to hurt your feelings. And that is genuinely true. Anyway

ReallyFuckingFedUp · 17/06/2014 12:59

If your definition of people making slurs is saying "biologically male" I question your definition of attacked. However as I said above every female I know has been actually attacked so these discussions mean a to me. But fuck it, I've been meaning to take a break from MN so think I will do it now as I'm spending way too much time online anyway

kim147 · 17/06/2014 12:57

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kim147 · 17/06/2014 12:54

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ReallyFuckingFedUp · 17/06/2014 12:52

I have seen posters tip toe around offending you so many times that it is very obvious you silence discussions. All you have to do is say something makes you feel bad. SO people avoid the discussion rather than hurt your feelings. You are a prominent member of the FWR section and no one wants to upset you.. I don't think this has been missed by you either

kim147 · 17/06/2014 12:49

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kim147 · 17/06/2014 12:48

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kim147 · 17/06/2014 12:46

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ReallyFuckingFedUp · 17/06/2014 12:44

If a thread really distressed me, I would stay off it. I wouldn't start on it make demands, then say it was distressing. I wouldn't send Pms to try and guilt people in to not discussing things. I would not (as on last thread) say people were using slurs because they referred to someone (who still had a penis) as biologically male.

Kim silences all trans discussions.. I can understand finding them difficult but the normal way of dealing with that would be to step back.

If a heterosexual cis gender white male came on here and said "by discussing the patriarchy you are making me feel unconformable" or asked for answers but refused to respond to questions would you also run to his defense?

allhailqueenmab · 17/06/2014 12:35

Kim - I thought you asked "what do you think we want?" Sorry if I got that wrong, it's hard to go back and check.

I answered the question as to what I think you want.

GoshAnneGorilla · 17/06/2014 12:35

Cailin - you really can't understand someone saying that talking about something gives them distress, so they would rather not discuss it?

Step back a minute from the feminists vs trans people mindset.

Someone is telling you "I can only talk so much about subject X, because I find it too personally distressing".

Would you really call that person obtuse and say you don't understand them? Or would you respect their boundaries?

Also, I don't know how long you've been on here, but these discussions have been happening for years. Kim has been involved in these discussions for years, so I completely understand why she feels she's said everything already.

Original poster
CailinDana · 17/06/2014 12:24

Ok kim, I thought we'd discuss it further as I didn't really understand but if you don't want to then I can't make you.
All I can say is that I don't really get it.

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kim147 · 17/06/2014 12:24

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kim147 · 17/06/2014 12:21

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Original poster
CailinDana · 17/06/2014 12:19

To be honest Kim, I find you really obtuse.
You say one thing and then you deny you said it. Or someone challenges what you've said and you couch the same thing slightly differently rather than answering the challenge, or you simply refuse to answer.

You wish to "pass as a woman" and be called "she" etc but not be accepted as a woman. "Finding yourself and being true to yourself" is something everyone wants - it says absolutely nothing meaningful about being trans.

This is my take on it.
You don't want to be male.
You want to look female.
For whatever reason, looking female makes you feel better about yourself - if you would say more on this, that would be enlightening.

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kim147 · 17/06/2014 12:15

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kim147 · 17/06/2014 12:13

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ReallyFuckingFedUp · 17/06/2014 12:12

dont know why i bolded my own name Confused

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