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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Traps For Women & Girls

307 replies

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 18/08/2010 15:41

I've been thinking about how a lot of the time it is impossible for a woman to win when it comes to choices.

For example, it seems that everyone is very keen for mothers to stay at home, especially those with small children (should say that this is second hand, I have no DC yet). Public opinion, childcare costs, media etc all make clear that that is the right choice.

And yet when they do they become expected to do all the housework (even at weekends), vulnerable to charges of being lazy, "ladies who lunch", overprotective etc.

And if they work part-time they are often seen as uncommitted at work, and still have all the downsides of being SAHM.

Or if you wear make-up and heels some people will judge you as a bimbo, but if you wear a t-shirt and jeans and trainers, then you are probably depressed or a lesbian (nothing wrong with being gay, just a stupid judgement to make on appearance alone) or not making "enough" effort.

Was wondering if anyone else had examples of being caught in these kind of traps?

OP posts:
scottishmummy · 18/08/2010 20:54

what you on about isnt,im actively participating no one is saying dont discuss.now you are havering

scottishmummy · 18/08/2010 20:53

so in that case why when anyone says rise above it, forge own path do they get slapped down and told not that easy,the system and male power

ISNT · 18/08/2010 20:52

I don't accept that all individual men have lots of power, obviously, or that I am in thrall to every man who crosses my path.

But there's no denying that men are in charge, everywhere in the world, and that women are only recently starting to get somewhere with improving their status, and there is a long way still to go.

There is still a gender pay gap
Most women who are raped still don't report it and if they do they rarely get very far to a conviction
Single mothers slated in the press while single fathers get barely a mention

The list goes on and on, and that's just in the UK. What is happening to many women around the world because of their sex is unbearably horrific.

i don't understand what is wrong with having this conversation. Surely it is more fatalistic not to have this conversation and allow all of these things to go unchecked.

BeerTricksPotter · 18/08/2010 20:51

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LeninGrad · 18/08/2010 20:51

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Aitch · 18/08/2010 20:50

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scottishmummy · 18/08/2010 20:47

activists who accept male power and assert the majority of girls lack confidence,and blame the parents. im saying have self efficacy and mastery of own destiny.just because inequality does happen and could happen.doesnt mean you have to accept and acquiesce to it. take your own path,dont accept such a gloomy premise

dittany · 18/08/2010 20:46

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ISNT · 18/08/2010 20:46

Oh gotcha BTP missed that!

I think if you don't rise above it, and you don't sink beneath it, then you're right in the middle looking it in the eye and considering what the hell to do about it. That's where I'm at anyway, I think.

sm surely it is that case that people change during the courses of their lives. Unconfident teenage girls who consume these messages can grow up to be powerful women fighting against them.

I'm not sure what you'd have people do. If teh argument is that these messages are irrelevant/don't really affect anyone/most people are confident enough not to be bothered by them, then there is no problem, is there. And we can all stop and go home.

But that's not true - the MN let girls be girls campaign, what happened with the dr pepper status takeover - lots of people are upset about the messages, especially messages to young girls, and want to talk about the messages and what we can do about it.

Aitch · 18/08/2010 20:46

oh fgs beertricks, what you wrote was glib, beyond belief tbh.

BeerTricksPotter · 18/08/2010 20:46

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Aitch · 18/08/2010 20:45

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BeerTricksPotter · 18/08/2010 20:44

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MillyR · 18/08/2010 20:44

Surely the point of all these campaigns that have been won is that while many individual women are strong enough to deal with sexism in their lives, we can change things in extraordinary ways if we identify areas of sexism and challenge them collectively.

LeninGrad · 18/08/2010 20:44

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dittany · 18/08/2010 20:43

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BeerTricksPotter · 18/08/2010 20:43

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Aitch · 18/08/2010 20:42

YOU'RE the one being fatalistic, SM. the rest of the thread is about activism, surely?

Aitch · 18/08/2010 20:41

that to beertricks but...

Aitch · 18/08/2010 20:41

gosh, what glib nonsense.

scottishmummy · 18/08/2010 20:40

yes kittycat how did these things change when majority of girls apparently cannot deflect societal messages

cant play it both ways

women put upon,kept down by machinations of oppression.majority unable to deflect powerful messages

or mighty and strong able to rise up against an oppressor

whats it to be

real answer is actually somewhere in middle

this fatalistic vision of subjugated women isnt accurate

BeerTricksPotter · 18/08/2010 20:37

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scottishmummy · 18/08/2010 20:36

no accept that majority girls cant deflect societal messages,and know you place.accept male powers.do let the bastards grind you down?

kittycat37 · 18/08/2010 20:35

ScottishMummy - inequality is real and damaging and recognising that isn't 'whining'.

How did the American Civil Rights movement ever challenge segregation? The ANC challenge Apartheid? Women get the vote?

Certainly not by ignoring the real inequality that exists as you seem to advocate.

LeninGrad · 18/08/2010 20:35

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