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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Deletions within feminist thread..

32 replies

emskaboo · 29/06/2010 22:09

could you please MNHQ give us your reasons?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/989721?pagingOff=1#20306563

OP posts:
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dittany · 10/07/2010 16:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PortiaNovmerriment · 10/07/2010 15:26

Don't leave- we need you!

dittany · 10/07/2010 15:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dittany · 10/07/2010 15:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

earwicga · 02/07/2010 19:22

emskaboo -

"an active and deliberate attempt by someone who by their own admission set out to 'bait the feminists on mumsnet"

The actual words I used on Twitter were 'baiting a radical'. Please don't misquote me. I NEVER at any point said I had "set out to bait the feminists on mumsnet."

I used 'radical' as shorthand for 'transphobic radical feminist'. I apologised because this is offensive to the many radical feminists that aren't transphobic.

I was pleased when I found out that mumsnet has a feminist section, as I find mainstream blogs tend to attract women who are child free.

HerBeatitude · 02/07/2010 16:42

I don't think it needed to be said actually, it's just a personal attack on another MN poster who isn't even on this thread.

I certainly didn't perceive Dittany's posts as looking for a row, I saw it as her stating her pov. If you don't agree with what she says, you're free to argue against her.

onagar · 01/07/2010 21:26

Oh come on emskaboo. I hadn't read it until I saw this thread, but once I did it was clear from the start that Dittany was going to have a row no matter what it took. It's not exactly the first time or even the 101st time.

This post well be deleted no doubt, but I won't cry about it when it is and someone has to say it.

Original poster
emskaboo · 01/07/2010 16:15

Helen,

Thanks for that, sorry can't reply via email as it is refusing to send.

Tortoiseonthehalf shell, I wanted to see my post because I was really concerned that in amoment of madness I might have said something 'downright hostile', but when I looked at it I was satisfied that I hadn't. I expressed a view which I pretty much repeated in a post later on. That post wasn't deleted so I can only assume wasn't regarded as being inappropriate.

In fact the only difference between the two posts were that in the first one I explicitly supported two posters with whom earwicga had already disagreed, and that if you ask me is the real motivation here, not defending the rights of those who define as transgender, or trying to prevent a hostile environment but an active and deliberate attempt by someone who by their own admission set out to 'bait the feminists on mumsnet'.

I am, (Forlornhope this is for you), so over this now and I'm retiring from these threads for a bit.

OP posts:
champagnesupernova · 01/07/2010 09:42

Think that it's a v fine line and HQ will never win no matter what they do.

tortoiseonthehalfshell · 01/07/2010 08:46

HerBeatitude, if you're creating a hostile environment by doing so, yes. But no-one's going to come and lock you up for expressing a view in a non-hostile or inclusive way.

Some of the comments in question (and they're deleted so I can't quote now!) crossed the line between 'debate about the meaning of femaleness' and downright hostility, frankly.

Blackduck · 01/07/2010 08:32

see threelittlepebbles that is exactly my point...it seems that the policy is not applied fairly and consistantly.

threelittlepebbles · 01/07/2010 08:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

TheFoosa · 30/06/2010 18:47

blimey, didn't even realise there was such a thing as being transphobic

HerBeatitude · 30/06/2010 18:02

So does that mean that it is actually illegal to express the view that a man who has had a sex change operation is not necessarily a woman?

HelenMumsnet · 30/06/2010 17:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

FolornHope · 30/06/2010 17:07

oh get over it

Original poster
emskaboo · 30/06/2010 17:06

It doesn't for me I'm afraid, I would be grtaeful if you could email me directly with a copy of my post and the exact bit which was found to be transphobic highlighted, I think I might need to reflect on it and how I feel about it.

Thanks.

OP posts:
MNHQ
HelenMumsnet · 30/06/2010 17:01

OK, emskaboo's post and Sakura's post were both deleted after being reported for containing (in part) some transphobic language.

It was a difficult call for the person who was on site duty. Often the line between strongly held point of view and unacceptable point of view is a fine one - and one that we readily accept we're not always going to call the same way as others might.

But those comments were reported to us and our dog-eared guide to the Sex Discrimination Act of 2005 does say that "it was amended to expressly outlaw harassment on grounds of sex and on grounds of gender reassignment. Harassment does not have to be targeted at a particular victim who is known to be trans. It is enough that trans-phobic language, ?jokes? or actions create a hostile environment."

Trust that makes things a little clearer.

sethstarkaddersmum · 30/06/2010 16:15

depends how tolerant we all are of homophobia

MNHQ
HelenMumsnet · 30/06/2010 16:03

OMG - am I going to have to delete myself?

sethstarkaddersmum · 30/06/2010 15:55

ooh Helen, you'd better watch out. Someone I know made exactly the same joke in the THES and the next week they printed a letter accusing her of homophobia.

(Can you even imagine if misogynistic jokes got the same reaction?!)

MNHQ
HelenMumsnet · 30/06/2010 15:37

Hello again.

OK, we're getting to the bottom of this bit by bit

Two of the posts (both by earwicga) were actually deleted because they contained personal attacks (on dittany).

Am just looking into the transphobic thang now. Will be back in a bit

HerBeatitude · 30/06/2010 12:58

Yes can you define transphobia please and explain why transphobia is a Bad Thing.

If it is because you're afraid of a libel case, fair enough. If it's because you have more respect for a complaint about transphobia than you do about mysogyny, it's piss-poor.

Blackduck · 30/06/2010 12:56

Actually Helen, that isn't IMHO a full enough explaination. In what way were they transphobic? People were discussing a view point expressed by a writer. Can you give a fuller explaination?

HerBeatitude · 30/06/2010 12:46

Trans-phobic my arse.

So now we have men dictating to us what female-ness is and when we contradict them on a mainly women's forum, they get our views wiped out, jsut as women's view has always been wiped out throughout history.

Nice one MN.

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