School holidays - cost of travel and taking kids out in term time poll - the results!

I like KingCanute's suggestions except for the limit on when the 'extra' holiday could be taken.

I can't guarantee, for instance, when my cousin decides to visit from NZ with her 3 children; I am not going to have them all staying with me for a week with dd having to go off to school everyday while her youngest cousin, the same age as her, is here on hol.

Similarly, if my aunt's 90th birthday falls in June and she is having a huge whole-family get-together to celebrate, dd will miss a day at school in order to see the family. I'm not going to tell my aunt to celebrate her birthday in September because dd's school won't let her come otherwise. Nor am I going to lie to the school and pretend dd's sick.

The 'extra' hol is entirely discretionary and is, I think, there for occasions such as the ones I've suggested. They are not there because it's cheaper to go away at another time of year, and I don't think that should really change. I think you should have a pretty good reason for taking your child out of school, and I personally don't think a better deal on a holiday is good enough.

Also, as soon as you move the holidays the travel companies would pick up on it. They would readjust their pricing to take into account when the holidays were. They already have picked up on the private school's early finish and those weeks are now at the higher price brackets. It wouldn't take them long to adjust prices. You'd maybe get one year on cheaper prices.

If you bring the GCSEs and A levels forward by 2 terms then you lose 2 terms of learning. And this would then impact on any modular exams takem; they would all have to moved backwards.

This wouldmean that GCSEs would have to start sometime in Y9, finishing in Jan Y11; then children need to do something whilst waiting for results (but what and where?) and if they are do do A levels, to get the 2 terms back they need to be starting those Feb in Y11 at the latest, but would GCSEs results be there by then? If not how can they chose what to do?

The changing of holidays impacts so much on the whole system. The amount of planning and changes would be immense.

Ok, how about this?

Bring the school year forward so the exams are taken straightish after christmas then have the summer holidays starting earlier, perhaps the beginning/middle of June, then have the first half term of the year after the summer holidays with a 2 week floating holiday.

That way we would have our long holidays at the warm time of the year but at a slightly different time to some other countries. We could have a slightly flexiable holiday to allow for parents with problems getting time off and it would still be at a warm time of year ie at the end of August/beginning of September.

If teachers knew that there was only one half term of the year (the first one) where the class could be disrupted by holidays then they could plan for that term to be more workbook or research based as this is work that can easily be done anywhere meaning that teachers will not have to put any real effort into providing work to do whilst away and so shouldn't have to spend time catching children up when they arrive back to school.

It would also make things a bit easier on employers as premium summer holidays would be spread over a much longer period (beginning June to end September). It would also give access to lower priced holidays at the start/end of summer.

The important thing with work set by school is to ensure it does not cause extra work for the teachers. Which is whyI would suggest that the results of the work are shared in somewhere, such as in circle time, rather than having to be marked by a teacher.

very interesting ideas here, agree that 'work' could be set for children who are taking holiday in term time.

not sure if i would like more holidays in the colder/wet weather.

Maybe schools should have some booklet priduced for the child to take with them to complete, that is age appropriate. Something that can be used by any child int hat year group to complete about their holiday, but incorporates things involving certin curriculum subjects.

Wouldn't take long to produce and if left vague enough it could be used year on year.

Child just brings it back after holiday to share in circle time (at primary level) or maybe to present at secondary level.

I am absolutely dead against changing the terms to 5 shorter ones. The summer holidays are short enough (just on 5 weeks for dd for the last 4 years ). If I had not had the long summer holidays to get over the bullying I endured at school, I would actually be dead (tried to kill myself twice by the time I had left primary). I wouldn't reduce summer hols any further for that simple reason - they really can help to save a life.

I am with GiggleWitch. Allow up to two weeks term time absence, but don't encourage it. Put in place a serious requirement for proof of some sort of learning during the time out, or provide some decent 'homework' (holiday work).

Staggering holidays could mean that some families will never be able to get together properly.

I suspect whatever is done, if anything, about school holidays, there will always be some who will take their children out in term time. Isn't it better to have a basic provision for the inevitable?

I'm not angry with the travel cos for hiking their prices, that's capitalism in action, and that's how we live in the west, like it or lump it.

In response to GreenMonkies - that work situation is really off nd should be challenged. It should be questioned whether anyone should be allowed 3 weeks off over the summer if that means that other people canot take time off at all. The management must ensure holidays are taken fairly. Thi does not mean that nly parents should be allowed school holiday dates off, but they should be a system that allows holidays over kep periods to be shared.

DH has the system where at least one partner has to be in work. There are 3 of them in his department, all with children. They work it really well and we have never had a problem sorting 2 week's holiday in the summer. But this is because they have certain guidelines in place to keep it all fair, and they all take heed of it and communicate with one another.

Staggered holidays would be less easy to manage for teacher parents as they don't have the flexibility to take holidays whent hey chose, unlike other workers. So if their own holiday is staggered away from their children's they may not be able to take time off when they have to for their children.

Also holiday clubs would not be as freely available. Holiday clubs work now as schools can get together, or external agencies outside of the education system, and several children from different schools all join together to make holiday clubs work and to keep them sustainable. If you have different schools having different holidays this would be far more difficult to manage and you may find the choice of holiday clubs reduces limiting everyone's choices.

Also if you stagger holidays, esp the summer one that would mean a whole change to everything in the education system especially examination systems and potentially affecting university systems with applications and entry. Our education system is at the bottom of a whole pile of other stuff. It is not just as simple as people think to change the holidays.

The school holidays are not the problem as such. This is easily got round if schools allow children to have the 10 days already cited. And if travel companies try to avoid the massive pice hikes and start offering child discounts in holidays.

I think forums like MN should also ensure that the holiday prizes they offer include school holiday dates, as many of the prizes - such as Centre Parks, who are really reallyy bad with price hikes - can only be used in term time. If the forums started challenging these maybe it would get the message across, or at least start to.

I know what you ar saying about harvest, summer holidays are a historic thing however, I find, the break is not long enough in lots of ways. Now my dc are growing, especially dd1 who has her own life more and more, I value every second of the holidays. Even just being together at home is worth its weight in gold these days. I have to admit, although I think more even terms may help some problems I would be hard pressed to give it up. I build up to it all year and I know I am very lucky as most parents cannot get that time away from work.

If we had staggered holidays teacher/parents would have to do what us "other" working parents do, and use holiday clubs, "play dates" and grandparents to help out with childcare.

I would happily see shorter terms with more, shorter, holidays. As it stands at the moment, I am not going to be able to take any time off over the 6 week summer break, as two members of staff have each booked three weeks off and blocked the whole school holiday period, and the joke is that neither of them has school age children!!!

DD1 is in year 1 now, and will move up to year 2 in September, last summer, despite a week away and several good days out and playing with friends etc, by half way through the 6 weeks off she was missing her friends, bored and asking when she was going back to school. I know this won't always be the case, but do we really still need 6 weeks off over the summer, it's not like our kids are going to be busy with the Harvest now is it???

I do kind of agree about the Summer hols being a bit too good to give up! Having said that though, I would love to have a longer Christmas holiday, currently it is far to short to make the most of and I would love to do a family holiday at Christmas rather than to Pontins with hundreds upon hundreds of others in the wet british "summer" - which is all we can afford in the Summer. (nothing against Pontins btw, I just know I could get more for the same money at other times of the year and it makes me a bit cross!)

I agree - I want my child (and me now) to be off for the most time when it is warmer and sunnier, rather than at cold and wet times of the year.

Staggering summer holidays would be awful! Can you imagine how you would manage children in different schools, or teacher parents, having different holidays to their children. Many people live on LEA borderlines or work outside their local LEA, s they would never match up. It is bad enough that INSET days often don't match up, even within LEAs.

Maybe at primary level at least schools need to be a little more obliging in letting children take the 10 days that is already there. With some warning - most schools ask for at least 2 weeks anyway - most teachers can easily work round this.

At secondary, or at least exam years, it is more difficult.

Given the need for exams to be taken at the same time (for marking, so that all have equal amount of time beforehand etc) any staggering would surely mean that many people would have more holiday at cold and wet times of the year.

This is also the problem with more terms and holiday spread over the year. I don't WANT more holiday in cold wet times of year. We already have two half terms, the easter 2 weeks and christmas 2 weeks in colder months. OK if you can and do jet off to warmer places at those times, but if you live in a small flat and can't afford a big entertainment budget, more winter hols will be miserable.

We have staggered holidays round here but only by a week or so which is not much use. Just confuses the crap out of parents with kids at different schools who, yes you've guessed it, often don't share holidays

I like the sound of the "floating holiday". Personally, that would make a huge difference to me as I would never plan to holiday for more than two weeks in a year anyway, and it would offer the flexibility of going away when it suited my family.

THe whole thing with hitting the holiday providers/organisers etc has been done before and was hailed a success at the time yet here we are again, I would be interested to know if this is because they have slowly bought the prices back up or have stopped offering the promised discounts etc.

TBH I think it would make more sense to sort the problem out in the schools more. Evening out the terms, staggering summe holidays and perhaps offering a "floating holiday" say one or two weeks that can be taken at any time during a certain term/half term.

A floating holiday would mean that parents have greater flexibility and teachers could plan a little more than just having random holidays at any time during the school year. It would get around the problem of parents who do not get summer holidays off and would enable us to take advantage of slightly lower prices.

gigglewitch - DD does the scrapbook think on holiday. We tend to do a page a night, before bed, sticking in bits from leaflets, tickets, etc and adding some writing. We leave spaces for photos once printed at home. DD loves taking it into school when we go back.

We don't have term time holidays, but DD loves doing them.

I reckon that set of responses has given enough ammunition to hit the education folks, particularly in Primary age children. OK so I trained as a teacher in my former life but I think it makes sense to allow parents to take their children out of school for two weeks at a time, provided that they can cite a few areas of learning for their child.
It's no hardship (and may of us would anyway) to show your child where you are going on the map - be it 50 miles of 500 miles, and get them to help plan the route as appropriate to their age. Then if you are going on a couple of sighseeing trips, surely you'll hear a bit about the history and / or culture of the place you are visiting, and perhaps even keep a scrapbook of photos and notes, tickets and stuff afterwards?
My dc tend to do this sort of stuff anyway, and really enjoy taking their scrapbooks or photo album into school when they get back after the holidays. Why not go for agreed learning targets to get time on holiday? Even if you are planning to spend a full two weeks in the pool and on the beach, you can surely justify teaching them to swim and water safety, so you don't have to be a culture-vulture type to get something out of it. Even our recent weekend in soggy cumbria was good for teamwork and communication

If term time holiday learning was seen as a valuable experience rather than a big skive opportunity, schools would look on it far more favourably, IMHO.

But if you stagger holidays, you'll get the situation where families can have children in different counties having completely different holidays. How would childcare work then?

I agree with CrochetDiva that I wouldn't want my dd to be in school any longer than she is now. She's exhausted and we're counting down to breaking up for the summer...And she barely gets 6 weeks off...(not 8)

Parents with children in private schools seem to be luckier. My friend, whose dd breaks up today, is off to a cottage in Cornwall this weekend, which has cost under £600. In state school holidays, that goes up to £1500

Staggering, yes. Longer 'half terms' yes but still need childcare and/or supportive holidays

Pressure/lobby campaign yes: I'm up for that.

And MN Holidays? Yes.

When I get round to it, I'm going to do more houseswapping.

8 weeks over the summer? Since when?

The May half-term holiday is the only one which has to be set in stone for everybody: the external exams are at that time of year, and the timetable for that has to be nationwide.

It's happened once in my teaching career that we had Easter weekend as a bankholiday weekend, then went back to school for a week, then finished for the "Easter holiday".

The French work a system of staggered holidays and it works quite well for them: theirs are so that the ski season can be extended though! They finish for the summer usually in the latter half of June.

AAs a parent of a 6-year-old, I wouldn't want him in school any longer than he is nnow - he's on his knees with tiredness at the moment.