Please or to access all these features

Site stuff

Join our Innovation Panel to try new features early and help make Mumsnet better.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Dear MNHQ, I didn't see all the problems kick off over poor Revjustabout...

1010 replies

georgimama · 20/01/2009 12:38

but I would be grateful if you could tell me that you have at least given serious consideration to banning the posters who were harrassing her.

Thank you.

OP posts:
RiaParkinson · 20/01/2009 22:06

lovely justine

So civil and calm - i need her in my real life!

Dior · 20/01/2009 22:05

Well, I agree with all reasonable posts on these threads

allnewcontrolfreaky · 20/01/2009 22:05

mnhq. sorry to be blunt but someone really should tell you (am volunteering) that you have LOST THE PLOT. person being bullied asked for "credentials" because a bunch of defecting disloyal bullies beat her up online?? asked to change her name??? (was it ever thought a problem that her codliness would regularly dispense legal advice on here despite (so far as i am aware) being wholly unqualified legally, based on her position as a lay magistrate which she alluded to regularly?? or was that ok because she didnt register as lljcod (lay justice) or madamcodthemagcod....??

i dont get it. your disarming "we dont mind a bit" about the whole mouldie debacle will backfire badly if they lurk in their members only golf club but make regular saliies onto mn to bully people who are making a real and valuable current contribution to mn (revjustabout) with seemingly no consequences.

can you tell am really pissed off? good.

JustineMumsnet · 20/01/2009 22:02

Ok sorry for delay - putting kids to bed and all - seems we need to clarify a few more things:

First to the charge that MNHQ are Moldies! viz:
"And it is wierd that this kind of PR mishap keeps happening when there seems to be some kind of white fungal element to things. I don't know if it's accidental - MNHQ are embarrassed and so keep being cack-handed - or whether they are actually on Mouldies. But it is starting to really piss me off."

Well many moldies were/are in many cases Mumsnetters too - it is true we're trying to be fair all MN members - not just MNetters who aren't Moldies. I can't tell you how hard it is, actually. How often we've sat on our hands when our instinct has been during the whole sorry, painful, time-consuming mess of Moldiegate to turn round and say - as many on MN have - well sod off then, to the Moldie crowd. But that would be hypocritical and therefore low of us. We can't on the one hand, say we are fine with folks leaving/ creating a new board and on the other bear ill-will for them so doing - even if it has caused a lot of pain.

We've ended up pretty much peeing everyone off I guess. All I can say is we try to be fair and to treat each complaint on it's merits and without regard to who (whom?) the complaint is about. (Unless it's Hughjarss) You might think we've made a "PR" hash of it, but we're not trying for PR here, we are trying to be fair.

Bear in mind also that we do "know" most of those who appear to be Moldies in the sense that they've posted on MN for some time and we know they're well-meaning folk, not meanies, as a rule. So if you extrapolate from that, those who raised concerns with us (and some did in a proper way off board) had real concerns about the Justa, and weren't just being vindictive, so of course (though we strongly suspected they were mistaken and told them so at the time) we had a duty to check out their suspicion - we do say in our troll policy that if you report your suspicions we'll take them seriously. You would all, I suspect, expect us to do the same if you had a genuine concern that someone was misleading others on the boards. But we deleted the posts that suggested Revjusta was not who she said she was, first.

We did not really doubt Revjusta but we've been doing this long enough to know that the strangest things can happen on the internet, so er checked a few basic things about her from readily available sources and those she herself had volunteered, so we could say with certainty that these accusations against her were unfounded.

With regard to Revjusta losing the Rev from her name I reiterate our position here:

Having some posters acting in a professional capacity doesn't sit particularly well with our philosophy. Revjusta had talked about Mumsnet as her ministry - she undoubtedly gives great support and advice and we very much trust she will continue to do so - but we don't want it to seem like we at HQ have appointed her as chief spiritual adviser or anything like that. After all, we're not Bishops and frankly have no authority whatsoever in spiritual matters! It's a bit like the disclaimers that we have at the top of some of the boards (the ones that say something like we are not experts in this matter and have no way of verifying that the info you get on MN is correct so this is no substitute for seeking professional advice type of thing) - the fact that Revjusta has a Rev sort of means she needs a disclaimer too (and that would have meant a v long nickname).

So we mooted a name change as part of a wider conversation about her welfare during this whole affair - and she agreed it was a good plan. (She has incidentally apologised to us for her thread title and post, which somewhat implies that we de-frocked her whilst she was kicking and screaming! But understandably, as I've said, she was reeling a bit from being doubted by folk.)

We also specifically discussed waiting a few weeks before she name-changed, so it didn't seem like it was in response to the questioning of her validity - which of course was not something we wanted folk to think.

Yes it was unfortunate timing because understandably it looks like the unfounded attacks have had some consequence. Sadly that was out of our hands.

As to the banning issue, we don't think anyone deserves to be banned over this. People are forever wrongly suspecting others of being trolls (and sometimes rightly suspecting them). What this has done is serve to remind folks, we hope, why we discourage this kind of public outing of people - put it simply you might be wrong - in which case it's unpleasant and unkind. We reiterate our troll policy and urge you to contact MN with any concerns (as we say we promise to take any concerns seriously). We will continue to delete any posts and threads "outing" others as and when they are reported/ we see them.

What we would say though, is this: It is very clear is that the sudden appearance of a group of known Moldie Members on a MN thread, particularly if they've not been around much and have a common strong opinion will always be liable to make folks suspicious that it's at best something that's been pre-discussed on Moldiesand at worst an orchestrated attack. This is a natural consequence of some Mumsnetters being known to use another closed board and something that folk should bear in mind if they are keen to avoid ill-feeling/ further upset.

MNHQ

Aitch · 20/01/2009 22:02

the title of her thread says it's an 'unhappy' namechange, dior, that's what stands out for me. ach, this is bollocks. fair's fair. they were mean girls and they were in the wrong. surely they should apologise. i'm surprised at them, tbh, would have thought they'd have held their hands up by now.

TheFallenMadonna · 20/01/2009 22:01

Oh FGS. Don't come on and be all reasonable MrJA. We're getting on our high horses here...

Dior · 20/01/2009 21:59

Yes, it was just an example with a slight similarity - to try to explain why I could see MN would want to keep seperate from it all.

Someone was saying that the Rev was name-changing because of the posts and not to be bullied. I was saying that she had agreed with MN to do it.

I still think she should keep it though.

Heathcliffscathy · 20/01/2009 21:59

agreed re not grouping moldies. i LOVE some moldies IRL and online.

actually i really like a couple of the culprits here. I just utterly and totally condemn their actions...both on the thread, and in their subsequent defence of what they did.

MrJustAbout · 20/01/2009 21:57

One last thing about bullies and mumsnet before I go ...

The whole purpose of the "rev" in justabout's name was so that she wasn't misrepresenting herself. Given everything else that's gone on, I really don't think there's much chance that anyone going on the reluctant worshipper's threads for the forseeable future won't know where she's coming from.

Given this, I'm not sure that much is lost beyond a prefix that's not actually doing a job as such in the light of this controversy.

Can we lay off mumsnet a bit? They are in a bind in trying to keep stuff civil in here and they can't patrol everywhere all at once. They've have been as supportive as they can reasonably be expected to be without coming down hard on one side of this - and that wouldn't be appropriate.

This is an open forum and so it's always prone to trolls and personal attacks. If we want a closed forum we could probably have one, but it would lose much of its character.

That disclaimer on the religion/spirituality/philosophy board is a good idea though.

Aitch · 20/01/2009 21:57

i was just meaning a warning that if people have a spiritual issue they need help with, then they should contact a rl human being, rather than an internet sprite.

DrWilfSellAndNotJustAnHonorary · 20/01/2009 21:56

Dior, to be fair there's a bit of difference between giving out WW (commercial advice) and religious guidance (where I imagine talking to people about spiritual stuff is just part of the vocation)

Threadworm · 20/01/2009 21:55

There is no need for any such warning!! It is inconceivable that anyone would think MN endorsed a particular philosophy or religion.

Even if someone does have 'rev' in their nickname.

morningpaper · 20/01/2009 21:55

totally agree with your last post Nantucket: this is jolly unfair

It is all getting a bit Jonathan Ross

Dior · 20/01/2009 21:54

I think the Rev has agreed to change because MN was worried about appearing to sanction the 'ministry'. It would no doubt have been the same if I had called myself 'WWLeaderDior' when I was one. I know WW would have been incredibly annoyed that I was giving advice on the internet, and I guess MN would have had to be careful not to be seen to sanction it.

However, I think she should keep her name, especially as we now know 100% that she is kosher oops wrong religion for real .

Aitch · 20/01/2009 21:54

i agree, bitoffun. a warning would have been better than an 'unhappy' namechange. come on MNHQ, you should reconsider this one i think.

(and yes, heston is a nob).

Aitch · 20/01/2009 21:53

correctamundo, smiley.

BitOfBarackyFun · 20/01/2009 21:53

I don't know the rev well, as a) I am an atheist and haven't read the RW threads, and b) I'm likely to be found on more grubby little threads about bumsex and the like, but I have liked very much the way she comes across, and I hope she doesn't feel too hurt and upset to come back when she is ready...it seems that most people feel the same, and any hostility towards her was from a few moldies who were perhaps smarting from her sticking her head above the parapet when that whole thing kicked off, or feel a bit irked that life on MN has gone on without them and revjusta is held in high esteem. In view of this, yes, I think justine should have left the name issue alone.

I notice we have a new "warning" on AIBU, so surely something similar on the Philosophy/Religion threads saying MNHQ don't endorse any particular position or poster would suffice?

Just MHO

Nantucket · 20/01/2009 21:53

(see you answered that already.)

Aitch · 20/01/2009 21:52

they are all the same people as they once were on MN, LM. some of them are utterly unbearable bitches and some of them are really cracking women...

Nantucket · 20/01/2009 21:51

The fcat that Revs actions and intentions are being scrutinised at length, rather than those that made vindictive attacks, really makes me...................

MAD.

Rev was involved in an ongoing thread about gaza on which her posts were very informative and balanced (generally agreed) and then a couple of nasty pieces of work come in, fling some mud about, and now Rev has to change her name and all and sundry are debating her intentions and validity on MN.

How the hell is this in any way fair and just?

It's not.

Seems like the bullies got what they wanted, a questioning and slapping down of the Rev.

(aitch are you no longer a mouldie?)

policywonk · 20/01/2009 21:51

OBM calls her TheMotherFuckingPadre

policywonk · 20/01/2009 21:50

I know there are a lot of perfectly nice and reasonable posters on MNOldies, but I don't believe for a second that this particular lynch mob occurred by pure chance.

LadyMuck · 20/01/2009 21:49

Maybe Aitch, but you know a person by their friends and all that.

Aitch · 20/01/2009 21:48

i think justabout should call herself ThePadre...

or TheMadre?

policywonk · 20/01/2009 21:48

Perhaps Justine feels bad about dropping the big ol' hairy Mouldy bollock to begin with and is now over-compensating?

I am not a psychoanalyst (in case anyone needed telling).

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.