How long does it take for a private message to be passed on and does mumsnet always pass them on?

"the law implies that anything negative, defamation etc, is wrong, until proved otherwise? "

No, I meant the law which says that MN are responsible for what is posted on their site rather than the poster (something like that). Going to court to prove that statements are not libellous, defamatory etc would cost them a lot of money, therefore if the person the statements are about says that they're going to sue for libel, MN are not going to faff around deciding who's telling the truth. Once bitten twice shy!

WE ARE TIRED OF BEING 2ND CLASS MN CITIZENS

WE WANT COMPS!

OverseasmumsnetteRsunIteForfaIrtrEatment

I don't blame Mumsnet for keeping out of it at all. I'm afraid freedom of speech was quietly phased out some time ago in the UK and they are not in a position to change that.

As for innocent until proved guilty etc, just look around MN (and anywhere) and you will see people saying "but if felt racist/sexist/etc to the victim then it was. It doesn't matter what they intended" so no one believes in that any more and no one wants free speech either - not for other people anyway.

"which bits they actually think are libellous" Except they did this the last time and deleted them. It didn't work.

The problem lies not with MN but with the law as it stands. The only way round it is to have your own website so you assume 100% of any potential risk and are better placed to respond to any threats.

From what I remember from the last legal fiasco, the problem lies with who is responsible for any potentially libellous comments. As the law stands, it's Mumsnet, not the poster. Therefore, MN would understandably worried about another legal battle and have to protect themselves.

"information should be open, as should people's own experiences." Yes, you're right it should, but you can't really blame MNHW for not wanting to put their houses etc on the line again can you?

Um, I have to say (and I'm not trying to get into a Steiner argument here) that I was following the Steiner threads and the man in question was named by other posters too, in fact first iirc.

Now I know he was under a different guise as a woman on the site, and was talking shite etc, but tbh it seemed like the whole thing degenerated into a personal point scoring battle, and MN is not the place for that. I agree parents should be able to come here for advice on any subject, but thats not what was happening re. Steiner. It was just confusing and wierd to anyone not directly involved, and was attracting posters to MN who had their own personal axes to grind.

Fact is, MNHQ are responsible legally for what is said on here. Its up to them what level of risk they are prepared to take in order for posters to have freedom of speech, and they have obviously decided here that its too high.

I agree with the Humph, you can set up your own group on yahoo.

barking, I really can understand MNHQ's position on this.

Your fight to put your views about Steiner across is doubtlessly a valid and important one, but do you really expect the MN owners to risk this site and their livelihoods over it?

Especially when they cannot validate the authenticity of the information given by either side.

I am surprised there is not a site where all ex-Steiner parents and others concerned about the subject can meet to discuss their experiences, and provide support.

Might it be worth looking into setting one up - perhaps with membership requirements so you can monitor those with access to it? Or even having a Yahoo chat group to start with?

You could keep an eye out on MN for parents requesting help or advice re Steiner, and direct them to the other site/group.

The threat of legal action would be lessened, and I expect the level of support each person receives would be greater.

Just a thought, made with good intentions.

northernrefugee - I understand that you feel very strongly about steiner stuff.

But this is a forum for discussing ALL parenting issues (and some other stuff as well) and it would be a real pity if, due to someone taking legal action against the site itself, we lost our mumsnet.

Justine is right, she doesn't know who is telling the truth. Anyone with a hole in their arse can think that they know, and it may seem completely and utterly obvious to you, me or the neighbour's dog, but nobody except the actual person concerned can KNOW the truth, so don't take exception to what she said, she was not calling you a liar, she was saying that mumsnet is not taking sides on this one because, if you're picking your battles, this one's yours, not ours.

The cod situation was entirely different, personal threats were made against a person in REAL LIFE! If this happens to you on mumsnet I suggest you contact MNHQ and the police immediately.

Fair enough Carmemere, Northern and I just want to see what exactly this legal threat is and if it's actually genuine.

If it is genuine we want to see what can we do about it, as the man himself I have since found out, plays this game rather a lot on the web. We are both very upset and angry that he has chosen mn as a target.

Could you not just start your own site (for Steiner stuff, I mean, not suggesting you leave MN! I've read some of your posts and they're extremely enlightening )

That way you could post exactly what you want. Or a yahoo group?

Oh bollix, the Neanderthals threatening physical harm to Cod and her family were not threatening legal action against mn.
It is unfortunate that there is a Steiner looney devoting his life to causing trouble and curtailing free speech but I for one (and I'm guessing there are TONS of others) really would prefer if mn was able to continue for the use, entertainment and support it offers to the majority of its users.

so some are more equal than others

If you bang a drum hard enough, it breaks. You've broken it, move on.

Neck, chopping block and all that but here goes...

The person that northern is referring to is the same person that is threatening mumsnet and is stalking her around the web and put her real name on mumsnet.
I too stand by every word I say.

I understand Cod has had something similar happen recently, I know she is a long standing and very popular member of mn but what I don't understand is that northern has had a very different response.
In the 'Have I missed something' thead, Justine from Mumsnet writes:

Hello all,
Thought it worth clarifying what has happened here.

Over the last few days some rather pathetic acquaintances from Cod's real life have been posting nastily and in some cases menacingly about her on here and on her blog. We've been able to help Cod identify who they are, have banned them and will be writing to them tomorrow to let them know we'll be cooperating fully with any legal investigation that may or may not be instigated.

Cod is understandably shocked and upset, has asked for her posts to be withdrawn and has deleted her registration - no doubt she feels exposed, via her postings, to people who bear her ill will.

In truth this is not so much a case of MN invading real life as real life invading MN. As always we can only urge everyone to remember that this is a public forum, open to all. There are lots of good reasons why Mumsnet is free to access but it can, because of it's very nature, feel like a private place where you're solely amongst friends (well if not friends, then at least not enemies). But it's always worth bearing in mind that it is also open to those in real life who might not have your best interests at heart, especially when it comes to how much personal stuff you reveal.

We very much hope that Cod will be back soon - as many have noted it would be a shame if a few cowardly meanies chased such a storied Mumsnetter from the place. Let's hope not.

and here:

Sorry if you think we've been slow - for some reason there's been a lot of shenanigans going on in the last few weeks and we do like to be sure of our facts before banning folk. Sometimes that means a bit of a bottleneck - particularly if we need tech help to check out IP addresses and the like. We'll look at how can improve that - whether we can write a script to allow non-techy types to do this kinda thing and also think about whether we should look to use temporary bans more while we investigate serious things".

I too am exhausted by all this talk of legal threats, I suspect there is no weight to them and it is just one his many control techniques to frighten people here and derail the actual debate. I don't know how real those threats are and would like to hear exactly what the specifics are - I feel so strongly about this I am considering looking into legal advice.
I have asked before if there is any way we can continue these conversations if we took out some sort of insurance which would get mn off the hook?

The person that has made the supposed legal threats to mumnset started off on mn pretending to be a mother and was infact correctly identified by another poster as a 59 year old man from Sweden promoting his websites.
Northern and myself are 2 mothers from the UK that would like to talk with others about our experiences of steiner eduction along with other topics with other mums.

What will happen when the next new poster comes along asking for advice - will the thead get closed down or will only posters with positive stories to tell be allowed to contribute?

The irony is killing me that a steiner troll is bullying everyone here into submission and silence.

Not wishing to pick a fight....but why use CAT if you and the recipient are comfortable enough to share email details? If you have each others email addresses (which you suggest is the case in teh first couple of posts)

I thought that the primary use of the CAT system was to exchange personal details, such as email addys off board...not to have full "conversations".

*threat, not thread !

northern, MN was almost finished by a recent legal battle, you are not being 'censored' due to the whims of MN, but due to the real thread of legal action

so sadly, your finer feelings have to take second place to MNHQ protecting their business which ultimately keeps a roof over theirs and their families heads, food on the table and clothes on their backs