Would you ban smacking? Take our two-question-takes-less-than-10-seconds poll (and be entered into this week's comp)

one of the really big problems with smacking is the enduring legacy.

a smack as a response when they are small DOES become a problem-solving strategy until they become too big to smack.

By then the understanding given to the child is that violence works as a method of control.

pan, exactly...

after many years of 'taps' and 'pokes' and 'slaps' and 'stabs in the back of the hand for not eating properly'

all of which never did me any harm,

i still chose never to smack my dd,

why would/could i ever lay a hard/harsh finger/hand on her?

i really hope i never do...

Snoopdog, agree, agree, agree. No limits just ban it.

I was smacked as a last resort, when I was a kid and guess what I do now? Hit out as a last resort. So behaviour is learnt. Not a good lesson IMO.

If it's illegal to hit another adult then it should be illegal to hit a child

AGREE

simple,

end of,

no one should be able to hurt any child,

even just a little bit,

no,

not even a little,

childen are children,

they are fragile,

and they are precious,

they should never be hit,

whatever.

That may be so, but I think you may find that most people have at one time or another been smacked by a parent. They haven't all turned into wife beaters. I certainly have no particular recurrent desire to hit people, nor have my siblings or in-laws all of whom were occasionally smacked by their parents (but rarely enough to remember an incident or two).

I can't see the point in introducing law for the sake of "message". Do we have a huge problem in this country with parents occasionally looking their temper, or deciding that some actions need something more than the naughty step (an utterly ineffective punishment for my dd)?

If there is evidence from somewhere that has banned all smacking that this reduces child abuse then fair enough, but otherwise I think it is pointless posturing.

I'm not defending smacking as an effective tool for managing behaviour, but I think in these debates you need to define your terms if you're going to make causal links like that. Chastisement meaning what?

Good post Pan!

one of the really big problems with smacking is the enduring legacy. Smack as a response when they are small DOES become a problem-solving strategy until they become too big to smack. By then the understanding given to the child is that violence works as a method of control.

Fast fwd to their adulthood, and we discover that, almost to a person, men convicted of domestic violence offences, were "chastised" as children, and had learned that this is an option to deal with "unruly" partners who hadn't learned "their own" accepted codes of behaviour.

SO a BIG no to smacking for all our sakes.

and yes, skiing please.

To me. IMHO there should never be a reason to physically cause pain to another human being, whatever their age. It's not on and should be illegal. Then no parent has the 'reasonable corporal punishment' to back them up. What does it achieve?

I don't think that the issue should be legalised more than it currently is.
There are already child protection laws that would cover a child being physically abused.
A smack from a parent who has tried everything else may not be right but to criminalise that parent for making that bad decision is not a good one in my opinion.

But would you smack an adult that was incapable of understanding reason?

this thing about smakcing children being the same as smacking adults is ridiculous. You should not smack a child once it has reached the age it can be reasoned with but small children often CANNOT be reasoned with.
there is no mielage at all to be had in comparing with adults.

If it's illegal there is no 'agree with smacking' anymore. It's past and so it should be. I hope.

Would anyone accept your DP smacking yourself if you stepped out of line? Thank god the law has changed on that.

And what about a parent who does agree with smacking and can't do it anymore but has to sit and discuss why it's wrong why the other children are climbing up the tree outside because now, they know Mummy is busy for about an hour talking to a child who is NOT going to take it in at all.

What if my child says to his teacher 'Mummy smacked me this morning because I was trying to drown my brother', will I be prosecuted.

Absolutely and totally mad and I am new to this forum.

Yes I would like to see it banned. It doesn't achieve anything, what lesson is violence and how much etc. An out and right ban would draw the boundaries and then hopefully children at risk could be identified if they knew it was against the law.

Also parents need clear boundaries that it's not an acceptable punishment. Just as hitting a fellow adult is illegal and punishable under the law.

There would be no blury lines then. As in 'she needs a good slap'. Hearing this makes parents feel pressurised to dish out corporal punishment when they don't want to.

Books please.
Can't see the point of a total ban. A desperate parent as a last resort smacks their tantruming/throwing things/screaming/biting/bashing brat child and then gets a criminal record for it? Madness.

And it's no good saying that "it's all down to the way they are brought up and it must be ineffectual parenting if they behave like that" - some children just do have the devil in them at times.

Look what happened to that poor dad who slapped his teenage vandal daughter and she called the police on him - a lot of people didn't think HE ought to be criminalised but he was. And now he can't be football trainer for his local youth team or whatever. Really pointful, that was.

With adults, you can use reason, but that is not always possible with a child, who either doesn't understand reason, or does not have the experience or wisdom to understand that someone else knows better than them.

Adults don't tend to do deliberately dangerous things just for effect either...

oh and the other one:

smacking works when they are doing something dangerous.

oh ok, when i next see an adult doing something dangerous i'll hit them then.

that makes it ok.

it's a shit argument i'm afraid:

reasonable people don't need a ban they know it's wrong.

SO IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT IS BANNED TO THEM.

who it matters to is parents who serially smack and need the state to let them know it is wrong. and that they can be punished for it.

I'd like anything BUT skiing thanks - can't think of anything worse (except maybe a free pass to the gynaecologist of my choice for life)

reasonable people don't need smacking to be banned to tel them that it is wrong. people who do slap and beat their chldren inappropriately will carry on doing it anyway, as do people who drink and drive, people who smoke in front of their children and people who feed their children fruitshots.
yest i've slapped my children when at the very end of my very long teather and no it didn't help at all but making me a criminal for doing so won't help either.

standard advice from schools to anyone working with children - do NOT touch. I'm glad some people still have the confidence to ignore it but doesn't avoid the fact that the advice is issued.

hatwoman - I was using the socket as an example, we didn't actually have that particular battle...as we got the socket cover before he started fiddling.

I did smack ds for persistently removing his car seat straps though, as he started to keep doing it just as I pulled off at traffic lights and therefore couldn't pull over safely for a while . I did try telling him not to, reasoning with him, but after a couple of days of him doing it and making himself unsafe, the next time he did it I pulled over when I could, got out and smacked him on the hand.

far too fat and unhealthy for sking!

I think it is utterly stupid to try and pass such a ban! I think people should be able to judge what they feel is the best way to bring up their child an abused child will still be abused no matter what bill the govenment pass! where will it end dont tell me if I dont put my Ds to bed dead on 7 thats going to be against the law too!

[bit of an aside but I've never come across that kind of stupidity re touching. our school teachers and staff are perfectly happy to give a crying child a hug and a plaster. as I am with my friends' dcs and they with mine.