Would you ban smacking? Take our two-question-takes-less-than-10-seconds poll (and be entered into this week's comp)

I think there already is zero tolerance in society for any form of ohysical violence towards another person - except for smacking your kids. And whilst I would hate to see the law used against somebody like me (who once instinctively smacked dd when she was 2 and headbutted me whilst I was calmly telling her off for pushing ds) I do think that the law would gradually bring about a change in attitude and not allow people who are abusive to their children to pretend that they aren't being.

I also think smacking can escalate - I know that the only reason I have such a strong no smacking philosophy is because if I allow myself to smack at all, I wouldn't be able to not smack at times when I lose my temper. A blanket ban is the only thing that works for me and a legal ban might have that same effect for other people

done the survey

ban smacking.
there's no place for it.

can I have the skiing holiday wihtout the skiing?

banning is pointless

Hypothetically - I lose my rag and smack DS one in a blue moon and its very wrong and he learns nothing and I feels like shit. How is this going to be improved by someone reporting me and potentially having a criminal record/child portection order or whatever.

people who systematically smack to discipline their children who may be causing the child harm should be adqequately covered under existing laws.

Education over legislation.

Very interesting debate. I think that the idea of achieving clarity that hitting a child is simply wrong, just like hitting an adult is wrong, is very attractive, but I am not convinced that this is what would be achieved. There would still be lots of grey areas. Firstly I would like to know what exactly they are considering banning. What exactly is a smack? Can it be defined in law and how is it differentiated from a slap or an affectionate pat on the bum (given that any action that leaves a mark is already banned)?

If smacking is banned what about all the other behaviours that would constitute assault if you did them to an adult (grabbing, shaking, shouting, intimidating behaviour, threat of violence, physical restraint)? Should they be banned too? If so who decides what is a reasonable response to a child doing something dangerous in terms of telling them off? My little one does sometimes cry when I say no - so presumably he does feel threatened (the adult definition of assault) - should that be banned?

Also, I believe there are a number of instances when it is accepted in law that you have the right to use force against another adult (self defence, to prevent harm to others) - so if my child hits me how big does he have to be for me to have the right of self defence, or the right to defend another child? 10? 12? 15? 18? I ask because I know a few 14 year old boys who are bigger and stronger than me - are they still children?

Surely wherever you draw the line there will be grey areas and, as I think others have said, this should be far more about encouraging parents to understand what is a reasonable and responsible way to provide boundaries and discipline their children than bringing the arm of the law to bear.

Done, books please if I win.

personally I think it's totally nuts and a waste of legislative time and just another thing that's impossible to police and which will not change behaviour one little bit.

having said that, I have never hit my child and hope I never will, and wouldn't want it to happen to her or to anyone else, ever. but banning it won't stop it happening.

I am unhappy with a government that attempts to legislate how we should act, without putting support in place that would lessen the risk of that behaviour happening in the first place.

"threat of violence" from someone who smacks their child's hand away from a fire -that is ridiculous.

I have hit out in self defence before against my elder child, who is very strong

Or to stop him continuing extremely dangerous behaviour

I don't believe he had the self control or reason to be handled any other way. I never intended to smack my children, ever, at all, but surprisingly I did use it as a way of controlling him after many non violent attempts failed.

The point is not how to manage the behaviour but how to prevent it initially.

If I had been in a better place mentally and able to give himmore attention, had not had my own problems preoccupying me, so that his behaviour became unruly and uncontrolled, I believe it would never have got to that point.

I don't think the smacking denoted the failure as such
I think the need for it did.

No comment on whether banning is a good idea, without relevant support and other input to parents in my, or a worse, situation. I had no idea what to do when my child was acting like a maniac.

I certainly never enjoyed smacking him and have cried afterwards, in fact I still feel throroughly ashamed that it ever happened. Now he is 5 he is much more amenable to reason, thank God.

Oh Tatt, there is abundant evidence that living under threat of violence is harmful. That's a no-brainer.

And no one is saying that at all. When the poll comes in I think you might be suprised by the amount of people who are in favour of the ban have also smacked.

children are NOT adults and are not treated as such. I did not expect young children to feed and clothe themselves, I was responsible for them. I am also responsible for keeping them safe and bringing them up to behave themselves. It is not anyone else's business to interfere in that unless there is obvious sign of harm. Who has evidence that smacking a child is damaging to them? Beating a child obviously is and, I repeat, we have laws that are more than adequate to deal with that.

Personally I see lots of problems with some children whose parents would not dream of smacking them. It is not my business - unless they ask - to tell these parents that if they don't smack they need to teach their child in some other way. Nor is it my business to tell them that shouting at their child and demeaning them is abuse and is detroying that child. But once you start criminalising behaviour let's make every type of parenting I disagree with illegal. Doesn't matter if I have any evidence that it is damaging or not - I don't like it, I don't want to do it and so I'll stop anyone else doing it.

Those who want to see a law passed are saying my view of parenting is correct and must be imposed on you against your will.

We chose not to smack our DS and we have found other ways to discipline him time out etc. and in all honesty I find the thought of hitting him horrendous. BUT, I would not be in favour of an all out ban.

x

arse up* sorry

I don't understand how this would be enforced.
I think smacking a child for doing something dangerous, like running into a road, is very far removed from abuse.
As a parent, it's my responsibility to raise my child, not the govenment.

Well I have read this thread with interest
Firstly a while back, dh and I were reported to SS for smacking our children
DD reported us to her school because we took her mobile phone off her(needless to say a smack had not taken place for a couple of months)
I was interegated for hours by SS, the children were interveiwed, I was interviewed
questions such as did you use an open hand or a closed fist, was a belt used,any sort of weapon used
albiet SS where looking for something juicy maybe but they werent getting it
they tried to accuse dh of using a belt(which was completely untrue) and tried to charge him with assault
the whole thing was awful, that has torn my family apart

i agree with the child protection laws being put in place, but there is a very thick line between smacking and beating your kids.

In my case I found this sort of interagation and manipulation of my children disgusting by SS

btw I was told by dd's school that even a light tap obliged them to contact SS

this is just taking it too far and the whole thing is arse uo imo
they are taking the parental responsibility away from the parents, well if these do gooders want my dc's for the day they are most welcome and try reasoning with the pokes,prods, swearing teenagers that I have.

Next thing they will be banning shouting at children

You don't need to smack. It brings you down to the level of the child. Discussion, timeout, etc, there are many better alternatives. In Sweden it is illegal, a law makes it less ambiguous, but do we really need another law? I guess some cannot stop themselves unless it is made illegal.

So, yes, a law.

If there's a law specifically banning smacking, what about pushing and shoving, restraining, hair pulling, kicking, ear-tweaking etc because because physical punishments can take many forms. Some parents who rely on smacking may get round any anti smacking law by using another physical punishments instead.

And in some cases there is a thin line between restraining a child for their own safety or holding down a child purely as punishment.

I have never smacked in anger but I have in fear / shock. I felt shite afterwards but in both cases the 'lesson' was learnt by my willful dd and she didn't do it again.

My parents smacked - at least my mum did, my dad SCREAMED in my face and then ignored me for a couple of weeks - and this could be for something as simple as not tidying my bedroom. I preferred my mums way. Even now, 30 years later I have a far better relationship with my mum, and I'm still a little scared of my dad...... My dd will never be scared of me - maybe scared that if she runs out of the supermarket and straight into the road she might get a smack....but not scared of me.

No to banning. There is a big difference between beating/abusing a child and smacking one

i was smakced too but only when i deserved it - and i feel that i probably did deserve it! it didn't do me any harm then and I would not tolerate any kind of physical abuse now.

AS my ds is less than a year old at the mo i can't see myself smacking him but who knows what he'll get up to when he's bigger.

So long as he doesn't expct that he will be deserving of "respeck, innit" when he's older, unless he's done something to achieve respect...

I was smacked as a child and i didn't actually mind it. OBviously i wouldn't want to be smacked and i would beg, plead and hide to avoid it but once i could do no more to try and get out of it i just thought ok let's get it over with least the pain only lasts a second - it's better than being grounded for a month.

I think generally when people say tap they mean a light slap. one that doesn't really hurt but shocks instead. a tap on the shoulder might not hurt me, but it would shock me if i wasn't expecting it.

or "glaringly" clear, even!!

"it is false logic to assume that, because 'all' wifebeaters etc. were chastised as a child, that all men who were chastised as a child become wifebeaters etc."

I didn't say this. But the evidence is claringly clear. To be beaten as a child isn't a prerequisite to abuse later in life, but it DOES become a choice to fall back on when stressful times are experienced.

yes, I was smacked as a child, as a 'last resort', but I do remember thinking even then that this is no good way to help me see a better way.

The very thought of hitting my dd, aged 8, is utter anathema on so many levels. Inflicting pain on her as a 'tool'. No thanks. Violence is used as an alternative to authority.

No, not all kids who have been "chastised" end up being partner-beaters, but the invitation is there - parents are our biggest role-models - and those who don't progress to continuing the violence have thought things through for themselves, such as me, or, have had very positive other role-models to counter the detrimental effects otherwise.

As a man, I do feel quite responsible for the potential I have to pass on good and bad stuff. My dd will never accept violence on any level. Partly I am sure due to me, or her mum, never hitting her.

my Dh was beaten with a belt as a child. He is not violent in any way and never will be. it is false logic to assume that, because 'all' wifebeaters etc. were chastised as a child, that all men who were chastised as a child become wifebeaters etc.

I don't see any diminution in violence among the younger population as a result of current legalities; quite the opposite. Or peraps your argument will be that it hasn't been in place long enough? but reduction in corporal punishment has been in place for over 30 years now and violence amoung the yoof has grown inordinately.