We need your thoughts for a discussion with Talk 107 radio station in Edinburgh on....

Robin, would you want to be the bus driver to order the person with the huge pram on the Wester Hailes route to get off because a chair user wants to get on and their pram can't fold?

Because I wouldn't.

I know they don't just use Lothian bus to go into town, because we had no car for years.

We'll be there next week. With no car, a 2.5 year old, a 5 year old with SN and I'm 27 weeks pregnant.

I agree with banning prams that can't be folded down.

I completely agree with you Firepile.

Yep, Epxpat, I did that, too. Left my 4 month old on the pavement while folding my travel system to get on a bus having waited for over an hour for a bus that would let us get on.

It was shit. I was in tears. Are you really saying that's reasonable?

People in other cities seem to manage much better. Is there sonmething special about Edinburgh that means it has to assume that parents with kids are optional passengers?

I have a double buggy - yes it folds up, but how am i to cope with toddler, baby and folded up buggy? i feel outraged - i will now have to drive to my mum's rather than take the bus, so much for being green eh? I've been travelling on edinburgh buses with a variety of prams fo nearly four years now, and not once has there been a wheelchair user on the bus. and if there had have been, of course i would have got off instantly. i think it is a very heavy handed response to a problem which doesn't really come up very often.

and expat... People don't just use LRT buses to go into town, so perhaps a light pushchair just for the bus won;t be appropriate for where they are going, i go to my mums in the (relative) sticks and have a long walk to get to her house at the other end. i don't want to sound aggressive but i really feel like saying butt out here, you don't live in Edinburgh anymore. (and i know just what your response to this will be...)

You are expected to use a sling or a travel system that can be folded down.

That's what we did when we had a newborn.

You don't have to fold down the pushchair unless a wheelchair user wants to board.

The ban is on traditional prams.

And yes, I know how hard it can be to use public transport in Edinburgh with a toddler and a baby - we had no car for most of our time there.

But more often than not, you have to fold the pushchair before boarding NOT because of a chair user, but because another buggy is already on the bus, so if you wanted to get on, you had to fold your chair.

Or wait for the next bus.

Also - can you get fold-up buggies for newborns? I remember looking for one when I had ds1 but could only find them suitable from 6 months plus. Or would I be expected to stay at home for the first six months ?

If I had to manage a baby, a folded pushchair, a toddler, and any shopping I had accumulated, I would be stuffed. I simply don't have enough hands, it would be physically impossible (and downright dangerous where the toddler was concerned). The stress of knowing that I may be able to make an outward journey but not a return one would be too much and I would never go out!

I really think this is outrageous - what are non-driving mothers supposed to do?

Anybody fancy loading a weekly shop, plus folded baby vehicle, plus squirming baby onto the bus while passers by refuse to help? Or are we supposed to walk everywhere or use expensive taxis instead? Or not actually buy any groceries unless its online or a 5 minute walk down the road.

I travel to Edinburgh regularly. I have used a sling, but not when I am away from my home in Glasgow for 8 hours or more, and not once my son got too heavy...

This is not just about small babies either - as a bus user in Glasgow, I worry about my 2.5yo toddler falling off the bus or running into the road while I am trying to get a folded buggy on and off buggy inaccessible buses. It is horrendous.

I don't think people understand how stressful public transport with a baby or toddler is. Do we still believe that women with kids should be tied to their own homes?

Never had a pram. Agree with you, expat, that folding a stroller would be ok, but folding the sturdy pushchair I had, with a baby (toddler?) who only stood when she was one, was a nightmare.

I remember having to do this with my late-walking, late-standing large baby. Think there were too many pushchairs on the bus already. I had to fold the pushchair up single-handedly while trying to stop her falling over.

That was my second and final bus trip.

it's totally practical, uriel. just buy a cheap foldable buggy to use on bus journeys and save the pram for non-bus trips.

you don't have to fold it down unless a chair user wishes to board.

and yes, if you have space available for BOTH chair users AND f*ck off prams, then you lose lots of space for able-bodies passengers, and ridership in Edinburgh is relatively high.

They wonder why people with cars choose not to use public transport

Yes, but it's not practical, is it?

Are the buses too small to make a space for both disabled people and prams/sleeping babies in pushchairs?

It is a bit ridiculous what with all the enviro-info telling us to leave our cars at home!

Uriel, the article states:

'While parents with fold-up buggies are still allowed on ? on the understanding the buggies will be folded if a disabled passenger boards the bus ? traditional prams have been outlawed.'

and the wifey named her bairn Oakley.

ffs, that should have been banned .

But what if your baby's asleep in the pushchair? You can't fold it up then.

Or are you supposed to wake up the baby, hold the baby in one arm and fold up the pushchair with the other?

Some of those prams are so huge, they really do block the aisle in the Lothian bus, a real hassle on routes like the no. 49 or no. 22, single deckers, in rush hour.

Also, my blind pal has nearly tripped over some that are so large they partially block the aisle, not to mention if someone has a stick or Zimmer frame.

i agree with expat. there is nothing stopping folk getting a wee buggy for bus journeys or using a sling. obviously if you have just spent £800 on a pram that resembles an enormous photocopier you want to show it off, but that shouldn't be at the expense of a wheelchair user.

Disgusting. They will no doubt be moaning about the busy roads in a few months because people will not be messed around like this and will use their own transport.

Where I live the bus service is excellent always on time and very accommodating for pushchairs and mothers. It is very client centered. It is also well used and highly recommended.

IIRC, the sign does say the space is for a wheelchair user or disabled person, covering people who need aids to walk or have a guide dog.

Again, the ban is on PRAMS, not foldable buggies, if I read the original article (in the Evening News) correctly.

We're going back there next week, will be using the bus as I have a great deal of business near town centre, and DD2 still uses the buggy, but it does fold.

I think disabled passengers should always have priority but if there is no wheelchair user on board then I don't see why a pram shouldn't park up in the wheelchair space. Mums and tiny babies need to get out and about.