We need your thoughts on late potty training

Bea do you have any links to support points 3 & 4?

Well, I've read through all these comments and seen a lot of useful responses.

I'm surprised by several things:

• The overwhelming number of people who feel "the child will tell you when it's ready". How will it know, if you don't tell it what you want?

There are almost NO* posts on the side of early training. Even the few who dared to mention it did so very diffidently, maybe because of the fierceness of some people's posts. Yet as long as the child is not forced or punished, there is NO evidence to suggest it is a bad thing.

• NO-ONE has mentioned the well-recorded connection between late training and problems with bladder control right into teenage years. If a child does not have to control its sphincters, the muscles that give strong control do not develop. The internet is full of sad stories of people who had this problem as teenagers. My own sister in law has a 14-year-old who still sometimes wets himself, to his intense embarrassment.

• NO-ONE has talked about the connection between continuing to use nappies and sexual fetishes in adulthood.

If this thread had been started in China, or Chile, we would find that a child still in nappies at 2 is considered to be a late developer. Early training (at first without the child being aware that it's being trained) is normal there. It is we who are late.

Bea

Potty training is just one of those things where the child tells you when to start.

I think being consitant is the key.
Giving up at any time just prolongs it.

Bantammum, you are right when you say the hardest part is going out anywhere - that is where many fail - its more convenient to relent if you are going ut in the car. I dont think tht is any good for the child. I think it is a bit like stopping smoking - to successfully stop you need to never smoke again and break the mindset and comfort of the habbit.

If we were all at home all the time and never went out, we could give our child full support to break the habbit and potty training would be easy. I suppose that is where our stay at home mums had an advantage.

I agree with allytjd - older generations have rose tinted specs about when they potty trained us.And it was easier because they usually didn't drive or go far. That was my biggest challenge - avoiding accidents on the move.

This is not my experience at all. My mum loves telling people how I 'informed' her that I would stop wearing nappies on my 3rd birthday & not a day before!! Apparently I changed my mind & chose to go without a couple of weeks before, and this was the 1970s.

My children - ds potty trained at 2.7 from disposables. His nursery key-worked suggested trying a couple of months earlier but it turned out he wasn't ready. Dd, despite wearing reusables, was ready at exactly the same age. So there goes the whole reusables vs. disposables & girls vs. boys debate!

Fwiw, ds still sometimes wets at night but refuses to wear nappies unless we're away from home, so again can't blame it on him not feeling wet, he just can't control it.

One of the sources cited in the article was a tv production manager - I'm speculating but as it's a 'media' job, could this be a friend who's helped her out by coming up with an interesting idea rather than something she's researched?

I was speaking to a urologist about this and he reckoned the way I did potty training with my daughters (waiting for them till they were 2.5 or nearly 3) because the brain-bladder connection is properly formed by then.

he reckoned that early forced potty training could cause problems later eg asking toddler to empty (only partially filled) bladder could cause irritable bladder and frequent unnecessary trips to loo when older (ie not experiencing the true full-bladder feeling)

also wrt night training, my dd's have both been "late" and wearing nappies at night carries no stigma for us, indeed it's preferable to wet beds/changing in the middle of the night.

I took my DD out of nappies just before she turned three. No training required, took nappy off, she used toilet. I'm a lazy bugger so that's why I waited.

My mum was actually talking to me about this article in the car this morning, in a kind of don't you think it ias time dd (2.5) was trained. The other side of the discussion being that she didn't really want her round at there house in knickers unless she has got the hang of it.
I think mothers now have much busier schedules and so there is a lot less time spent at home with toddlers, it is very difficult to train a toddler when you do not have time at home.
As for the children at school, I find this very diffucult to believe unless there are sn.
DM doing some lovely judging once more.

Oh yes - forgot to make that point. Thanks for reminding me mmj!

Daily Mail is a load of crap.

I potty trained my children as soon as they turned 2 and it took a couple of months.
I think by that age they had speech and the bladder control to do it.
I feel uncomfortable about 4 yr olds in nappies.

Ideal age varies from child to child.

Potty trained ds1 at the age of 3 (a week after his birthday) because he wasn't ready before then. Cracked it in a week with only one accident.

Why struggle on for months and months when your child isn't ready? It's not a competition.

my 5th child will be 4 in september and is still in nappies. my first child came out of nappies during the day at 2 and nighr at 2.5.
All children are different and I donr believe there is a right or wrong age. I can honestly say I havent trained my children just encouraged

Two things,

1. there is, for most children a long period (for my ds 2.5-3) when they can "almost" do it. Do you keep them in nappies during this time or do you consider them trained and deal with the accidents. When you had to wash everything by hand, my guess is that the second option would be the preferred one. Now with disposibles (and washing machines) it is less clear. Hence we have more children in nappies well into their third year
2. I think there is an issue around poo. I don't quite understand it but feel that leaving it too late (or not having lots of nappy off time) does create weird issues. Some like the feel of sitting in it, some get really scared and only want to do it in certain safe places like their cot or behind the sofa

I think, like most things, potty training is a mixture of nature and nurture and any one who tries to say it is one or the other is showing a complete lack of common sense (like the DM usually does). My experience is that DS1 was trained just before he was two, I never planned to train him that early but he got chicken pox (V. spotty bottom) and it was the summer so I took the nappies off and hovered with a potty, it is the only thing he has been "advanced" and as he was PFB I am afraid I probably did go on about it a bit. One thing to say is that i was using washable nappies and I have heard that children potty train (on average) earlier with washables because they are more aware of the sensation of wetness in cloth nappies, although it could be that the parents are more desperate to train them due to being fed up of the nappy bucket! DS2 took longer to train (he was 3 before reliable) but he is on autistic spectrum so that is a nature problem. DS3 was the same as DS1 and they were all dry at night only a couple of months after daytime reliability. I think I have been lucky as my nephew is not dry at night at 6 but neither was his mum so nature again. IMHO grannies have selective memories about this sort of thing and also did not go out and about with small children as much as we do. Also, although I don't remember anyone in nappies in infants I do remember a couple of kids whose nicknames were "smelly".

An average age of 3 or 4? An average age of ... a nearly two-year age span? They're not even trying to be scientifically convincing. Ugh.

Anyway, that aside ...

Why? Convenience, ease, one way or another. Which isn't to say it's all about keeping a child in nappies because you're too lazy to potty train them. I mean that a generation ago it was worth the inconvenience of rigidly TRAINING a child (not the more learning-based approach we tend to adopt now), carrying a potty, dashing to loos, dealing with accidents, because the alternative was carrying on using and washing old-style cloth nappies, or the earliest, rather rubbish disposables. Now the nappies are easier, whether disposable or cloth, it's less worth the stresses of earlier potty training.

Ideal age - has got to vary. Developmentally though, I said there was no way I was even trying to get my DD out of nappies before she was communicating well.

Social pressure - nothing explicit. I felt a few stirrings of concern about DD's closest peers being out of nappies before her, but no one (including my parents and in-laws) said anything negative. She was out of nappies in the day at 2.6 in the end, with next to no bother, so not really much time for pressure to build up.

Tips? Couldn't possibly, having only got one singular child out of nappies! Stickers seemed to help (Potty Book for Girls, still keep finding pink star-shaped stickers about the place) and one particular pair of Sleeping Beauty pants that's still squeezing her 4yo bottom into, nearly 2 years later.

My 2nd was nearly 3. My 1st child was just over 2 so had assumed that was "normal" . So, yes, did feel slightly under pressure and a little embarrassed that my 2nd one took her time so much. I don't t hink there is an ideal age; it's when it happens without making it into an isshoo.

Chocolate as an incentive worked for us. It took a few days before she made the connection but, oh boy, when she did she managed to squeeze out a drop every 5 minutes.

Re: pressure question - potty training is actually the only development milestone I haven't felt pressured about - mainly because I now feel confident enough to know my own daughter and will instinctively realise when she's ready to be potty trained - rather than be pushed into it by some other (DM reading) mother at playgroup who raises her eyebrows at the fact DD is still in nappies.

I am a little disappointed and cannot believe that no more than 4 DM-readers have commented on this very important article. I normally love the DM comments-section. Last week it was breasfed 8 year-olds taking over the world and this week its 7 year-olds still in nappies. Todays parents, eh?

DD decided to start using a potty herself at 19 months old. There was no issues or many accidents because she wanted to do it. She started walking at 9 months so I suppose she has just progressed quicker generally.

DS however, at 3 yrs and 2 mths is showing no signs of wanting to use the toilet. He has done occasionally when we are having bathtime, but, tbh it seems like a long way off with him. He lies about having done a poo in his nappy and it's a battle to change his nappy as it is. I can do with one less battle with him quite frankly.

I'm getting pressure from everywhere atm about potty training him. Even DH is saying he should be doing it now. Since I'm the one who spends more time with him (with exception of the ILs who care for him whilst I work part time), I feel as though it is my call as to how to deal with it - since I'll be the one mopping up after DS. Knowing DS - he'll only do it when he's good and ready and even then, he'll likely forget to go regularly.

Oh, and there is social pressure. I am so fed up with other women (neighbours, strangers in public toilets etc) quizzing me loudly about why a big girl like dd (she is very tall, and looks much older than 2.8) is still in nappies. In front of her. So that helps.

There is also the question of why - are the nappy manufacturers to blame for creating more and more 'toddler-sized' nappies?

No.Not IMO. All of mine have been in reusables so disposable manufacturers didn't have any effect at all. Both dds were oer 3 when reliably out of nappies. I tried at 2.5 due almost solely to peer pressure and failed spectacularly as they just were not ready

What do mums think is an ideal age to get a baby out of nappies, or will it be a decision that varies with each child?

Varies for each child.

Do mums feel social pressure from others in their peer group or their own parents to get their kids out of nappies?

Yes, see post above re the dds who were pre anti discrimination legislation and would hae been refused nursery places if I had needed/wanted them to go before 3.5

Any tips for getting kids out of nappies?

No
DS is 2.4, I do know lots of under twos who are totally trained, but am not bowing to outside pressures this time, and will be waiting until he is ready. I am confident that will be before he start school though

I do think earlier training in the past was more to do with lack of washing facilities, and available support in the form of extended families than anything else. Using reusable nappies means that mine were/are aware of being wet and this did not make them faster to train at all.

What a daft article. I just don't believe that the nation's primary schools are full of children in nappies (and i notice the article didn't offer any quantification, or indeed evidence).

But yes, I'm probably defensive because I'm part of the problem. I didn't try training my PFB till she was over 2 (because there was lots of life disruption going on before, and i wanted to 'get it right'). It has now become the focus for her independence struggles (she absolutely refuses to use the potty, though she is clearly able to do so). I have decided not to join her on the field of battle, so have backed off, though will have to revisit this soon as she is due to start pre-school.

Yes, I would probably tackle this with more energy if I was boiling up buckets of terry nappies every day. But I'm sure we'll get there by the time she's 3, or not long after. And i really don't believe that she is spreading infection to all other children in her path! Seems to me that potty-trained children who are not scrupulous about washing their hands (probably most of them) are just as much a risk.

oh and apparently I was dry at night by 18 nmonths and ds is almost 6 and still in nightnappies, so wahat eh?