what on earht are you all doing wih tis suiceide stuff

iCod, this thread is too serious for that kind of flippant post.

i think if you'd started this thread f&z it might have helped. the op came across as cold and heartless. unintentionally im sure.

OK, see where you're coming from now Boco. So we need some sort of guidelines... sometimes, an OP just needs to keep talking to keep them safe, meantime, we should all be aware of the fact that it gets to a point where we can't help and need to encourage the OP to seek professional help. OTH, I have asked MN to intervene in potential suicide threads in the past and have been told they can't do anything, and have said just to just keep posting and supporting, so I think we need an MNHQ response to this.

Just to reiterate FRANNYS very valid and salient point

'I think there could also be a problem with the OP EXPECTING that MN will track them down and stop them
if this happens sometimes they may well believe there is a strategy in place to enable this ALWAYS to happen
people do sometimes make gesture suicide attempts, either partly or completely wanting to be saved
it's a dangerous business to allow people to think they can come on here, announce they've taken an od, and that other posters or MNHQ will trace them and send an ambulance'

AGREE implicitly

Oh dear. I must stop now because this is beginning to do my head in and go round in circles.

Narked no one is suggesting that people should not post for support. No one. Posting for support when down is good, it helps, mn is fantastic for support. I have had support from mumsnet, it has cheered me up when I've felt sad. I have tried to give support to people who have been sad.

This thread is about people in situations where the title is all about 'Right, that's it, had enough, have pills, am going to kill myself tonight'. These people whether serious or not, need help, they need real life help. mnetters are not the best people to help, they may not actually be helping, they may be delaying the person from getting real life help. It's not about the samaritans, it's about knowing what is actually best for that person and what is best for the people who may try desperately to help them and fail, or the people who may be rubbernecking and make it worse, or the people who may come to depend on being saved and not be.

Butterfly if it helps then there is no harm, but that is the whole point of this thread isn't it, which I don't think has been shitty, I think it's been largely thought provoking and important actually.

surely if these threads ( and despite a 'spate' they are very rare) occur once in while and we can help the person in need then where is the harm?

mental ill health is taboo enough ...

what else will we boycott ? style threads ?

I think this is a really shitty thread. We all know about the Samaritans. Sometimes we just need people we vauguely know about to talk to, and they might be virtual (MN)friends rather than RL. But I guess most of you have better things to do with your time than to help desperate people. So perhaps MN should just have a "if you REALLY need help, don't come here, phone the Samaritans" banner. Would that be ok with you, iCod?

enid - are you angwy?

oh yada yada

that is such bullshit

anyway you know what I mean even if normal is a silly word

there is no such thing as normal.

fgs

posting on a parenting site asking for advice on preparing your children for your death is NOT NORMAL

and then people get cross when poor, wellmeaning, everyday mums on here find it hard to handle

And you lot complain about the Nanny State? good grief!

Well for someone wanting an audience and a big dramatic fuck you, these threads are certainly unhealthy aren't they! That might be what they want, but for a chance of recovery it's not a great help having the refreshing widdlers surely?

Thinkstoomuch, sorry. I just don't want you to misunderstand and think people are not being empathetic. I for one don't believe that thread deletion is the best option at all, it'd be very harsh. But I do think there needs to be a way of dealing with it which is actually maximising people's chance of getting real help and avoiding it becoming something it shouldn't. That's all.

i tell you what...if i was ever really low i'd rather talk to madamez than any health professional.

Had to break off to BF. What I mean I guess, is 'there but for the grace of God'. If it was me and I was treated in the way some people think is best, I'd be more likely to top myself, not less. I'm going now. This is all a bit too raw for me and I'm not able to express myself as clearly as I'd like.

...some people are sitting at home with a bag of maltesers hitting Refresh and widdling with excitement.

Beautiful! I love it.

madamez post of 21.01 was spot-on.

Diva, my initial post was a response to Daddyj who had basically said everything was OK because a Samaritan had said so. You can pick and choose people's views on this thread to back up your own and I was showing that another mental health professional had said the opposite, that's all.

Sorry, I don't mean empathy - I'm sure most feel a lot of empathy. I'm trying to think of the right word.

BOco, thing is, some suicidal people want an audience (not making any statements about any MNer or any actual individual, merely a general observation) some people who want to kill themselves want to make a big dramatic performance out of it (like a final 'fuck you'). Again, it's not a situation you can fix with rules, because people will always find ways round them, and in many cases the Rules will be doing more harm than good.

'Them and us' perhaps sounds pejorative, but that wasn't how it was intended. To put it another way...it seems to me that if you felt empathy with those who are suicidal and for whom MN is an outlet (and no one is saying the ONLY outlet) they trust, you surely could never think that having the thread pulled/getting a message from MN/getting lots of people posting 'we're very, very sorry but please call your GP' was a good idea.

No, I suppose you're right about the New Rules, it's not really possible, but i still think the malteser munchers watching the unraveling person is not a particularly healthy scenario for anyone. Especially when they pop up demanding an update. Completely different to a person asking for support, that's fine, it's the urgency of suicide, it's not something that should have an audience I don't think.