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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

what on earht are you all doing wih tis suiceide stuff

833 replies

FluffyMummy123 · 30/05/2008 16:01

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OP posts:
pointydog · 30/05/2008 17:36

I agree that serious physical health problems are on a par with serious mental health problems. But because punters like to think they can save a life with kind words, or because they feel morally obliged to at least try, you end up with these huge long threads rather than a swift 'get proper medical advice'.

EustaciaVye · 30/05/2008 17:35

I have watched some of these recent threads. I'm not sure they are good for my own mental well being so will be trying to avoid them from now on. It is a bit hard when they appear in Chat though.

If MN were to do anything about this then there should be a 'response framework' with guidance on how to respond to the thread, what advice to give, where to direct the person to.

I can see that some people have been helped out of despair by some of these recent threads but I think that speculation on who it may or not be, and some posters demanding asking for updates make it all a bit car crashy.

expatinscotland · 30/05/2008 17:32

x post, exactly, Slubber!

expatinscotland · 30/05/2008 17:30

it's a problem that needs to be dealt with by professionals particularly because suicidal tendancies tend to go hand in hand with substance misuse and abuse.

i know from my own depressive experience that during the worst of times i was actively abusing alcohol and tended to find people who were in similar states with regards to drugs or alcohol or both.

i know when i first saw my GP here - a saavy nurse called him in - his training in mental health was far more valuable to my condition than any website, because of course one of the first things he asked me about was my substance usage.

it's a complex problem and online you don't know if an OP like that is also drunk and/or high.

foxinsocks · 30/05/2008 17:29

I would like MNHQ to comment actually.

I'd like to know if they are going to do anything about this.

Slubberdegullion · 30/05/2008 17:28

pointy (not sure if we are agreeing or not)

I think someone with an acute life threatening physical problem is absolutely on the same playing field as someone with an acute life threatening psychiatric problem.

As I said I think in my first post there are different levels of suicide risk, I just don't think that mn posters on the whole are able to assess that accurately.

expatinscotland · 30/05/2008 17:26

voice, yes, but referred on.

at least until MN finds out where they stand legally IF there is an instance in which an OP does in fact harm themselves.

foxinsocks · 30/05/2008 17:26

well sectioning could be your saviour objectivity

IHave37PairsOfShoes · 30/05/2008 17:25

I don't think there are many mental health experts on here and it does bother me that a bunch of amateurs (however well intentioned) are giving advice to people in a very fragile state.

I'm also very concerned that so many other posters get caught up in it all. It can't be good for their own mental health, waiting for the OP to come back on line, not knowing if they've attempted suicide.

And some other posters are just ghoulish in their fascination.

MissingMyHeels · 30/05/2008 17:25

I think a parenting site is one of the most important places for it to be discussed if that's how regular users are feeling. The people who have posted are young mothers with everything to live for.

I agree that it shouldn't turn into suicidenet.com but I think regular users should be able to voice those thoughts and feelings here.

expatinscotland · 30/05/2008 17:24

We also have had trolls on here who posted and said they'd taken pills and booze.

I'm serious!

madamez and fairfly were just two of the posters on such a thread - me, too - just a few months ago. others were, too.

expatinscotland · 30/05/2008 17:23

K, but you could have dodged the police after they were sent out and done yourself some serious harm and then there could be some serious reprecussions for the people who offered assistance AND the forum as a whole.

foxinsocks · 30/05/2008 17:23

yes, I agree with expat

we have loads of trolls on here. What's to stop one posting 'DO IT, Kill yourself'

ok, it would get deleted at some point but if it was on the weekend and MNHQ was a bit slow....

this just isn't the place

I'm sorry people are so desperate but this cannot be the place where people turn for that sort of help

and I agree with Wilf re the drama

objectivity · 30/05/2008 17:22

Maybe I'm not. But I know how I feel about the availability of mumsnet. sometimes it's the only thing that really feels useful.

I actually don't want people runnign round after me and activly dodged the police yesterday. But I needed a place to get out the stuff in my head. If MN wasn't here then I'd have become embroiled in my thinking and I would not be alive or I would have been sectioned following a failed attempt and then life would really have got beyond repair for me. If I didn't do it yesterday I'ddo it the minute I came out of hospital with nothing left.

WilfSell · 30/05/2008 17:20

I got involved with objectivity and susie this week. My first time. I then started a thread asking for advice and a debrief. Because I wasn't sure it was a good idea for millions of people, including me, to pile in with their own experiences, hang-ups, prejudices, lack of objectivity or experience.

I think, on the whole, this kind of thing is best left to trained professionals. I don't counsel students at work - I send them to the counsellors or the GP for a referral.

But in the absence of someone on here who can do an online job it feels a bit like walking away from someone in need on the street. I think I'd try not to do that either. Just because I don't know first aid (I do actually) is not a reason to walk by.

It's a difficult one. I actually wanted to post because I thought a lot of the responses were pretty judgey of people in a desperate state and not enough 'get help' or 'I'm listening', both of which, surely, are the main things suicidal people need.

I am also honest enough to appreciate there is a kind of vicarious something - not excitement really - but drama about it all. I guess because it is real people, real time, the instinct is to say something to keep them posting. People want to be the one who makes a difference. That isn't such a bad need. But as someone pointed out on my debrief thread, thinking about what happens if it all goes wrong (and they do kill themselves and what one's own needs and responsibilities are, is important. And it is also important for people to be aware they might do more harm if they don't know what they're doing.

I'm not sure I will do it again.

expatinscotland · 30/05/2008 17:20

Tol, that could easily have gone the other way, no matter what help was offered.

And in such a case, a parenting forum MUST look at where they stand legally and make a decision about how to handle such OPs.

TolpuddlapinMartyrs · 30/05/2008 17:18

Look at the first and last posts on this thread

StarlightMcKenzie · 30/05/2008 17:16

This reply has been deleted

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objectivity · 30/05/2008 17:16

Foxinsocks, I was meaning more sharing positive stories re. therapeutic intervention.

When you have received therapy that hasn't helped yoi start not being able to see the wood for the trees and really wonder if there is any other way.

foxinsocks · 30/05/2008 17:14

you can email the Samaritans

objectivity, talking to people or sharing problems is one thing

expecting people to talk you out of suicide is quite another and although you say no-one would have been responsible other than you if you had done something, how do you think it would have made the people who shared their experiences feel and what sort of position would it leave mumsnet in? It's a very dangerous precedent isn't it.

look, I'm not sure you're in a position to debate all of this tbh

expatinscotland · 30/05/2008 17:14

I still don't see where a parenting site should be involved in that, MMH.

But again, I have mostly worked in the legal field and in a country with litigation is common, although it is becoming more so here and that is of concern.

expatinscotland · 30/05/2008 17:14

I still don't see where a parenting site should be involved in that, MMH.

But again, I have mostly worked in the legal field and in a country with litigation is common, although it is becoming more so here and that is of concern.

objectivity · 30/05/2008 17:12

Just read what has been said while I was typing.

I think the problem may be that for a child with a fever the system works pretty well.You see a doctor either by callin gGP/999 or NHS Direct and then you go home with a prescription or you are referred on to hospital/whatever. You get your dc treated,job done.

With a mental health problem the system is flawed beyond belief. It is also sadly the case that a difficult hom situation can be made worse by those flaws.

I worked for a mental health charity and heard the same thing over and over and over again.

MissingMyHeels · 30/05/2008 17:11

No but it isn't the same as someone with an uncontrollable physical lifethreatening condition either. It's a choice. If that person was in a good place mentally they wouldn't be posting in the first place, if they were then I am sure they could see themselves that they need to call 999.

Posting on the internet is a very passive cry for help, if the person wanted real life help they could ask for it, however, it seems that more often than not they need the anonymity of the internet and the distance of it being a forum not real life, real time with "real" people.

pointydog · 30/05/2008 17:11

Samaritans isn't the only mental health organisation.

It's too much to expect of a chat thread on a parents website.