what on earht are you all doing wih tis suiceide stuff

should say that if that was the compromise reached, I wouldn't be happy with it. Still think it's wrong. But weirdly, despite what you think, I do listen to other people - think mumsnet needs to have a very serious think about what sort of position AND responsibility these threads place on them.

god daddyj I am SUPPOSED TO BE WORKING and not posting during the week you sod

LOOK, I used the Samaritans because they are an organisation I have had a lot of experience with. I don't mind who they get referred to. Whether it's their GP/mental health team/A&E/the police/the Samaritans, whoever.

and I'm not a great respecter of authority. I would have thought that much was clear BUT berolina and boco have pointed out FAR more eloquently than me my issue with 'not our job' and everything else so I'm not going to labour those points.

I feel it's morally bankrupt to let blatantly suicidal threads hang around on a general chat site. I just feel they are too serious (life/death) for that sort of thing. But I've said my piece so I'm not going to go over it again.

If you want them all pulled into mental health so that those who like that type of thread and those who want to help and those who (like yourself) seem so keen to prove that anyone can deal with suicidal people effectively can post to their hearts content then fine. I think that's a bit of a cop out imo but a compromise of sorts. I still think mumsnet, if they go for that, need to review their disclaimers and come up with a policy as to how/whether they will carry on tracking people down and what they are going to do so that they can cope with the scenario Franny paints and others where suicidal people actively avoid real life help, the threads turn into nightmares etc. I still think it's a very dangerous situation. And I'm not talking about just plain threads, I'm talking about ones where people say 'I am going to end it all right now'.

And with that, I really must return to real life for a bit. I also would like to say, one last time, that if you think I am unfeeling or uncompassionate about suicide, you really could not be further from the truth.

I was thinking more along the lines of (non-mumsnet) sickos telling them the best ways to do it, or other depressed people trying to set up suicide pacts as has happened on other websites. Would put mumsnet in a very tricky legal situation. I realise suicide is complex Cod - that's why Mumsnet isn't the place.

I hear you expat

Rubberneckers quite enjoy a bit of hounding though. And a suicide thread isn't the place for a hounding either is it. Shouldn't be a spectacle at all.

And people in despair should post and continue to get great support, no denying that, that's not the argument. We're only talking about people who are threatening then and there to kill themselves. I would never advocate they're treated with anything other than compassion and kindness, but to me, that involves referring on quickly.

'but the problem is cod that the thread title is going to draw depressed or maybe suicidal people and how are they going to feel by some of the frankly mean things said here?'

FGS, KM, if someone is that delicate the last thing they need to be doing is relying on a website, especially one like this, for the help they so desperately need IRL.

Maybe I'm being unecessarily wary, but while genuine mumsnetters will certainly go out of their way to do the right thing with these posts (whatever they think that is), this is an open forum, and anyone can come on. I'm a bit worried that unpleasant people (or just immature teenagers) could post really inappropriate things in response to these cries for help. I really think these thread need to be pulled early to protect the OP(with appropriate info on support as previously discussed).

we are trying daddyj but you just wont go

There is definitely a need for debrief for those who have been affected.
That is a good point which applies to many other topics, too.

It should not, however, be used as justification for denying people in despair the opportunity to talk.

No, it's not easy relating to someone who is considering suicide.
Not everyone can do it (I can't - yet - and have not posted on any of those threads)
but it's plainly wrong to suggest that no one on MN can.

They can. They have done it on two recent threads.
The Samaritans have praised them for it. They are a credit to MN.
Why deny that?

And what is it with this strange obsession about the few rubberneckers?
If they matter so much to you why don't you do your bit by hounding them off it?

Message withdrawn

re the samaritans, I'm not saying MNers can't do as good a job (I expect many can)

my point is that they have a support network, they are trained to deal with what happens when the outcome is not good (or if you don't hear), they have someone else to talk to,

THAT'S what I worry about most with these threads tbh: the effect on the people who do get involved

some people LOVE a suicide thread and I can see hwy they would not like the threads pulled

sad but true

DaddyJ you seem to be really saying that mnetters are as useful as trained professionals in a suicide situation, as mnetters are so compassionate?

Jeez. Did you ever read a madeleine mccann thread? Rubberneck City.

And you seem to think 'pulling someone back from teh brink' is quite a straightforward thing, we can all pitch in, few soothing words etc. Bollocks. A genuinely suicidal person needs help that we cannot give, not because we aren't caring enough but because we don't have the ability or the knowledge and should not have the responsibility. Believe me, I've had this responsibility and it's very very hard, even with someone you love.

daddyj, 'not our job' is not dismissive. It is in fact born of genuine concern that we as MNers might be out of our depth in these situations.

And the people getting all excited thing is not mocking of those in despair, but rather of those rubberneckers who do undoubtedly an egrettably come on to these threads.

Yes, it is not only trained experts who can pull people back from the brink, but pulling someone back from the brink is a hell of a task to suddenly load an untrained and hitherto uninvolved bystander with. Some will rise marvellously to the challenge. Some may not.

I did post and stay for quite a sustained period on one of last week's threads - it was the evening and I felt I shouldn't leave - but I made a lot of my posts thinking 'what the fark do I say that is going to make her hold on?' I felt very at the limits of my usefulness. Now, I can handle it, and I know this is not in the slightest about me. But it was a worrying experience, tbh.

Kerrymum - you're hardly averse to being harsh on people, yourself.
Some of those people could well be in despair. LOTS of people go/are going through hell and have an unbelievable amount to cope with.
Or should we only be moderating our own behaviour towards those who wear their suicidal tendencies like a badge?

well I have read some of it

and I do see Franny's point very well

but I don't think you can ignore someone at that stage. what if you did, and they thought even mn, who has helped so many people and is so supportive, doesn't care about me

that 'keeping a suicidal person talking' thing is a good point

but I would like to say something about the Samaritans and how they are the answer to everything. I rang them once when I was 22, when half my household had died within a four-month stretch and I was grieving, when dh (then boyfriend) was on a 3-month acting job and was subsequently never there, and my mother was severely depressed, mourning her husband and her mother, and there was only me and her in the house and I did not know what to do and had no-one to talk to

and the lady at the Samaritans said: "I don't really know what you have to complain about. You can still see your boyfriend on Sundays"

I think mners, in that case, would have been a fuck of a lot more helpful, even if some of them did talk bollocks. The Samaritans are only people after all

whatever the outcome still feel tittering on this topic a wee bit bizarre