what on earht are you all doing wih tis suiceide stuff

There is a big difference between 'Gee, I am feeling a bit down' to 'I want to end it all'... the first is an ask to lift a mood the second implies the decision has already been taken, talk me out of it...

It is unfair to ask nameless people to take up the mantle and be responsible for your mental health...

Expat talks sense.

I read yesterdays thread and found it very uncomfortable reading for several reasons, but also felt very sorry for MNHQ who were constantly being asked every minute or so to update, like they were CNN or something.

The things is, and again, NO ONE has been able to address this, but believe it or not, these threads can have legal ramifications - for both the forum as a whole and particular posters involved in such threads - particularly if the OP does in fact go on to harm themselves.

And that does need to be addressed by MNHQ and may be why they have not been in a position to comment or clarify their stance on such threads.

Compassion and health issues aside, legally this may be a grey area and as such you tread a fine line and sad though it is, this does need to be taken into consideration.

And again, it's impossible to know what the OP's state is - as sadly, many people who are that ill are also abusing substances.

I agree with Cod. I think there is the danger that these threads may lull somebody who has, say, taken an overdose and posted, into a false sense of security that someone will definitely be able to track them down and sort out RL help. The Samaritans at least have training in dealing with people in despair, and A & E duty psychiatrist in assessing risk of suicide.

Well poor old DH had to talk about this all through chille con carne as well (poor man).

He has changed my mind (as have other posters here) on my the delete the thread stance.

As others have said, if you really are on the point of commiting suicide it is better to talk to anybody rather than nobody. he said the basic ABC of suicide prevention is "keep them talking". So in as much as we are not qualified, mn is at the very least good at the talking bit.

however

If someone is acutely unwell (physically or mentally) then it MUST be stressed very firmly that they should really be seeking advice and help from trained professionals. i don't think the little disclaimer bit at the top of the health threads is enough.

I'm somewhat embarrassed to mention Tickers, but you know on some 'other' sites when someone posts every single post they make has some revolting flashing or inane comment on the bottom. I wonder on threads such as these (and appropriate health ones) if the moderator could apply a ticker to each post, something like

Please contact the Samaritans on....
or your GP

something like that.

So that every post (regardless of its content) also stressed the importance of seeking help at a more appropriate source.

Yes, that will always be a risk on an internet forum and that can't be changed.

There is a mantal health topic on this forum.

In principle I can see the arguiment for one post saying get help but...

peole who are suicidal just don't always get help. DH used to go to Gp regularly fro top up prozac prescriptions, every time i'd make him promise t tell GP he felt so bad he'd talked about suicide- he never did. And thats not unusual.

Of course we'd all feel terrible if someone went on to kill themselves, wouldn't we feel equally abd if someone posted here, got the standard call samaritans response, didnt and die3d?

Whata re the chances as well of tech / LL seeing a post first? Are people supposed to sit on their hands (after hitting !) to see what happens?

There's a limited amount posters can do but sometimes just having someone there is enough- I remember thata wful night suicidal Dh went missing after telling me he was going to kill himself. MN kept me going then.

I dont think that is the general thinking stella- that is not how I have interpretted it anyway.

If you really are at the point of suicide, you should ideally be in hospital/place of safety.

zippi, the problem is though that people in that state have no insight into what they should actually do to get help, or even that they need to. I guess people who try to talk to them here believe they can work through their denial somehow to encourage them to recognise they need help.

I'm not sure about a swift 'get help' thread either. If someone finds this a good place to talk, why not? It's as good as an untrained close friend. But the problem is the purpose the thread has beyond helping the protagonist. it begins to have a life of its own and serve the needs of other posters.

I'd be happy with a professional who could intervene appropriately, tell others to back off, while - as MNHQ seem to have done this week - with appropriate 'backroom' action to identify and contact the poster. Something like the role Tiktok plays on BF/FF?

Some people, regretably, aren;t over their head when they talk about suicide either. So if you are over your head, ignore the thread.

When I said ludicrous I meant chicken keeping has sod all to do with parenting.

I don't think that is the general thinking at all, stekla

It's not ludicrous. I am not in over my head if I post about chickens.
The choice is to post or not post, but say you do, you run the risk of making things worse.
Deleting threads immediately though is not the answer I don't think, not a good way to go.

I would be very wary of any attempt to shut down these threads, upsetting as they are for some people. It may not be the appropriate place, but if the suicidal/unhappy/attention-seeking/whatever person feels it's the only place to go, then is it really right to cut off that possible support? What I would venture to suggest is that people not directly involved (ie if you have no idea who the suicidal one is) might want to back off rather than upset themselves, in the same way as, if you see a car crash but someone is doing the first aid bit already, you walk on by because you aren't needed.
Because for one thing, saying 'suicide-ey threads shouldn't be allowed' might deter posters who are not actually tying the noose but are feeling like shit and want to wail and rant and dump out all their feelings. I suppose the bottom line is: we have to take responsibility for our own wellbeing if we have issues around something, and stay off threads that are going to distress us, where we can;t help the person involved.

At least put them on mental healtjh

The argument that this is a parenting site is ludicrous. By that reckoning, we cannot talk about chicken keeping, films, tv or geeky stuff.

And I am still not sure what any of you mean when you imply that suicidal threads cannot be allowed to exist here. What do you propose? Literally deleting the thread?

THinkstoomuch, quite simply we are not trained, we have NO IDEA what is the right thing to say, little real idea of people's circumstances - what do you suggest we do, just fudge it and hope for the best?
I think Cod is trying to clarify this a bit, because for sure there are enough people who are happy to post and post again, who can have no real idea if they are helping or not.
I struggle with parenting and depression and get advice here but my life is not at stake if the thread doesn't go the way I wanted.

We're not drawing a line anywhere. We're talking about it because we want to. Get over yourself.

You lot should get over yourselves. 'It's not our job', 'It makes me uncomfortable', etc. Have to say it reads like a lot of the regular MN 'big names' don't seem to like a bunch of depressives ruining their fun with all their dull talk of topping themselves.

Every day there are mums posting about their depression and struggles to parent. Where exactly are you drawing the line - ok to give them advice but not if they veer towards suicide?

If you don't like it and don't want to help just ignore those threads.

I'd like MNHQ to comment too.

i think the best place if you are suicidal is not mn but a hospital preferably if possible as a voluntary pateint

if you are severely depressed a real life support who can advocate for you unti;l you get help is the best thing

if you havent got that and you feel at risk then either go to the gp and tell him/her that you want to stay with them because you are scared they will eventually get you to see an on call psychiatirst

or if not a gp A&E similarly you have to say you are scared andf wont leave there side until you get help, ime a gp is better for this

ypou can also ask your gp for numbers to ring if you are desperate

i think there have been more of these kind of threads but maybe it reflects the higher numbers of posters

tho nautarally if there are posts then people will feel that they have permission to post

mn did solicit links for mental health about three years ago but never instituted them presumably for legal reasons