what on earht are you all doing wih tis suiceide stuff

you're right, slubbers, I wasn't thinking about the RL MNers but that is a big problem. Yes, the consequences thing is pretty chilling. Everyone assumes a good outcome

oh dittany, I think watching other people go through it as a rational, sane person gives you as much, if not more, insight than someone in the system themselves

and mumsnet is not always supportive. Sometimes it's objective and objective may not be what a suicidal person needs to hear.

Wilf, I agree that posters who involve themselves in a thread have to take resposibility for themselves (although I'm sure no one would have fully thought through the consequences to themsleves should there be a tragic ending to one of these).

What concerns me is the phoning/texting drama that often ensues to mners who may or may not know or live near the OP. I think is completely unfair to involve someone who has not chosen to post on a thread.

DaddJ- I would have finished the letter to my DC in tears, wondering if it would be woefully inadequate and then taken the 6 boxes of Efexor I have lined up on the counter.

Because I was still wondering ever so ever so slightly whether I would still feel as awful and like dying at the point when I was actually about to die I may have texted Shiny. Honestly.

I wouldn't have gone to A&E or phoned the Samaritans - would have been waaaaay beyond that point.And,I would have felt that my existence was undeniably unwanted.

Oh, if we have a Samaritan here may I ask you:
What kind of training did you receive?

Would you say that 'ordinary' people are simply not equipped to support someone who is suicidal without such specialist training?

Looking at the recent threads from objectivity and susie
would you say that MN did a good job compared to the 'professionals'?

I was responding specifically to Nagapie and IllegallyBrunette's posts.

no-one is criticising suicidal people

and Wilf, exactly what you have said in your posts outlines why no-one on here is in a position to help

as I said, there is a difference between a post where someone wants to talk through their problems and a post where someone says 'I've had enough. I'm doing it' which is a totally different thing and NO-ONE on here is equipped to deal with it.

I think the people who get involved have to take responsibility for themselves though Beaulocks. They make a choice to try and help.

I agree with Madamez's POV on this.

It would be truly devastating to a desperate person to have their thread pulled and be told they could not post on here.

Of course people must be told to get professional help, but it is incredibly comforting to someone at their lowest ebb to hear from others who've been there and got through it.

I speak as a former mental health nurse and Samaritan.

I also agree with FinS though: it is difficult to know whether the raft of comments do help. This is the point where we need more experienced and trained people to intervene I think.

I don't think anyone is criticising as such. I think the view of some people is that this may not be the right place and it might not fair on those people who get involved.

I'm also not sure it is helpful to criticise suicidal people for bringing their problems here and burdening ordinary MNers. People who are suicidal are, by default, sick. They are not rational, compassionate and thinking about what's best for the community at large. Nor should they be. what they should be doing is thinking about how to help themselves. Perhaps this feels like a way to do so.

where did I say I phoned Samaritans, FAQ?

because it was nowhere.

instead i sat on a beach with my 3rd bottle of wine and waited for the tide to come in.

the nurse ran and got the doctor in when DH drove me there for thrush.

FAQ I'm sorry your GP was crap.

It is obvious that loads of mners going through horrific times recieve invaluable support and help here.

fwiw I don't think there should be an 'either or' situation with regards to mn vs samaritans or health service.

I still think though that if someone starts an OP with specific suicidal ideations that the latter is the much better option than the former, and somehow that is what the OP should be being told...in conjunction with what other advice other posters have to offer.

But what Slubberdegullion said a few posts back is right surely? It is a natural and necessary response to keep someone talking when they seem to be on the point of acting on their suicidal thoughts. Of course - I agreed earlier many times - it is better for a trained MH professional to do this - but suicidal people don't just up and find one if they have no insight into how bad they are. And there is no easy mechanism for intervention on this site as others have said. So the risk is leaving a vacuum.

It isn't easy. I don't think I want to get involved again. But faced with a plausible need and some knowledge about what might help (not a lot), I might intervene.

and expat - I'm very glad that when you've been in your lowest places you've had the courage to pick up the phone and call the Samaritans - because I sure as hell wouldn't have (I have enough trouble picking up the phone to make a regular Drs appointment or get a quote for plastering walls when I'm feeling ok let alone making a call to the Samaritans when I'm low!).

yes but dittany, how do you know people can help? and how can you GUARANTEE people will always be helpful AND that the poster actually NEEDS the help that posters can give? I don't think we are in a position to judge that and I don't think it is fair to assume that mumsnet is the place for that.

And yes, I have extensive experience of mental health services through my totally mad family!

For now it is different, DaddyJ, but there's nothing to stop anyone from trying it out.

Again, I'm sure MNHQ is seeking advice, but I see cod's point in starting the thread and bringing up the issue.

Expat is right (BTW, I am not grovelling!)

It's so much easier to distance yourself from what is going on on your website if you (ie MNHQ) haven't commented on a particular situation.

Of course, MNHQ will consult learned friends and let us know in due course
but I am pretty sure the legal argument will not apply as we are in the UK.

Are there any British precedents for forums/websites being sued for someone doing themselves harm?
I doubt it.
Just like no one who has spilled hot coffee on themselves has managed to successfully sue McD in the UK.
That's the difference between US laws and British ones.

In the UK it's the libel laws that are draconian - hence the Gina Ford case.
It's very different from this scenario.

No one else did, either, dittany, until she brought legal action.

We had to be banned from mentioning her at all.

Hence, I can see why MNHQ has remained silent on this so far.

And dittany, the laws that can apply don't even exist in many cases.

That's why there's such as a phenomenon as a 'test case'.