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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

what on earht are you all doing wih tis suiceide stuff

833 replies

FluffyMummy123 · 30/05/2008 16:01

Message withdrawn

OP posts:
milkgoddessmakesthefinestmilk · 30/05/2008 20:13

i think pulling the thread would be extremely unkind, we all come on here for help advice and support.
yes get MNHQ and the police etc involved but i think for the posters considering self harm would not benefit from having the thread deleted at all.
also i this this thread cod was pretty nasty to start esp right now.

Fillyjonk · 30/05/2008 20:11

look, what do you think HAPPENS if you stop letting suicidal people post?

do you think they say "oh gosh I'd better call the samaritans instead?"

of course not. If someone was up to calling, or emailing, the samaritans, they wouldn't be spilling their guts to a bunch of internet sprites.

When people are that desperate they need as many avenues open to them as possible. MN is, for some people, the best first step to getting help, but to others it is the only step they can take.

Brushing it under the carpet, because it can get messy or tasteless or whatever, is not really on imo. We are a community, sometimes people need help, this is life.

(btw, advicelines incl the samaritans are also ofen criticised for diverting people from Proper Help, ie underfunded psychiatric services/drugs)

FAQ · 30/05/2008 20:11

foxinsocks - the Samaritans own website say "f you email we try our hardest to get back to you within 24 hours."

24hrs - like that's going to help someone now/in the next hours or so (as even in the middle of the night I know from experience you rarely wait more than an hour - usually much quicker - for a reply to a thread).

soapbox · 30/05/2008 20:09

I'm coming late to this thread. My view is that I do not have strong feelings about the threads themselves and can see from Objectivity's very eloquent posts, how they might help in extreme circumstances.

I dislike the car crash mentality of them - the excitement and drama. If people stopped long enough to think about what they are posting they might consider that suicide is a bleak act, and that the excitement is so terribly misplaced.

My main issue with the threads, however, is that in helping one individual, the lives of many others are potentially impacted in a horribly negative way. In the days and weeks following one of these threads one can almost chart the collective despair that pervades those at the very edge of being able to deal with it. A train of threads ensues, each one with its own tale of misery, despair and bleak hopelessness. It is almost as if the effort taken to support one member sucks the life out of many, many others. The most vulnerable of people in our midst are those that seem to end up bearing the brunt.

I think many of the works written about those making serious suicide attempts suggests that people in that situation would go out of their way to avoid being talked out of their death. On the other hand those making a cry for help type bid, come to rely on someone 'saving' them. It's a risky business relying on a talk board for that kind of action - a more interesting thread somewhere on the board or a less than exciting title and ... well help might never get to you.

It is complex and it is difficult to meet the needs of all of the vulnerable people who post here, but on balance I think for the greater good, these threads should be deleted and MNHQ should deal with them off board (involving known 'friends' of the OP as appropriate).

objectivity · 30/05/2008 20:08

Slubber, that is a great post and pretty much sums up my opinion. I am more than aware that my next steps are to go and get the counselling that will help and the latter end of discussion on my thread of yesterday has given me a lot of enthusiasm and insight in so doing. So, that's two positives out of a suicide thread. The other one would be that I am here to read what's been posted there today.

FIS I don't entirely disagree with your pov but I would hope thatyou might appreciate how much calling the Samaritans or going to A&E or being arsed to go over things with a GP when you've done so before and still ended up in the shit,seems like a rubbish option.

For me it was cigarette, mumsnet, drop son off, come home to pills. Because of the mumsnet bit in that plan I had a chat to son's father because I felt a bit less sure after being on here and then the last bit didn't happen.

It could have been, cigarette, drop son off, feel lonely as hell, pills.

Nagapie · 30/05/2008 20:02

You are asking others to collude with murder.... it is not only illegal but the act is so self-centred.....

There is a distinction between depression and pychosis....

foxinsocks · 30/05/2008 20:00

then they can email the Samaritans Janni!

you cannot guarantee that supportive people will be around when they post and that people will say the RIGHT thing. How can you guarantee that.

Slubberdegullion · 30/05/2008 20:00

DaddyJ, are you trying to say that mn is better than the professionals?

If you are then I completely completely disagree with you.

Does mn help? yes
Does mn support people who are considering suicide - yes?

Can mn ever possibly be a substitute for a one on one interaction with another human being who is trained in listening and in being able to differentiate those who are seeking a listening ear and those who are on the point of taking their own lives, who has support mechanisms of their own to deal with any fall out, who has resources (in terms of medical treatment...and yes this includes pharamceutical treatment) and contact with other support services, who have medical knowledge in different psychatric diagnosis and up to date treatments.

I will repeat my (dh's) earlier point that if someone is seriously considering suicide then the most important thing to do is to keep them talking. mn does this - that is great.

I think it is a big leap to go from that to mn is better than the samaritans or mental health services.

Fillyjonk · 30/05/2008 20:00

I think its very very common not to want to bother the samaritans

there are specific things you learn on (most) adviceline training. In particular, you tend to learn non-directional counselling / active listening techniques. Basically, this IS something most people can be trained to do. It is not really something especially prevalent on the suicide threads. BUT people posting on MN KNOW the deal, and counselling isn't a one-size-fits-all thing,

Sometimes people want stuff like , and also other people saying "yes I've been there, its shit, it gets better", or even "yes its crappy, but this is what you need to do" which basically you won't get off advicelines (you get support to work stuff out for yourselves).

I do agree that a few of these threads have probably been attention seeking and there is certainly a car crash contingent. But there are also a lot of MNetters doing Good Work.

dittany · 30/05/2008 19:59

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foxinsocks · 30/05/2008 19:59

you are proving my point anyway dittany by the way you are reacting

as I said, I feel terribly sorry for those who get to such a low that they feel suicidal, terribly sorry.

Janni · 30/05/2008 19:58

foxinsocks - Objectivity is telling us EXACTLY the opposite i.e. that if you are already using MN, it will be the place you want to turn when you hit rock bottom.
It is much, much easier to post anonymously and see what response you get, than to make a phone call to a stranger - i.e. a Samaritan. These threads can be the first step to help someone access the help they need. I totally understand why they make people uncomfortable and those MNers should simply hide them, but there are plenty of MNers on here who DO know what to say when someone is feeling desperate.

foxinsocks · 30/05/2008 19:56

dittany, nothing in my posts is weird or nasty.

It is my opinion and I am just as entitled to it as you are though you seem to feel that you are right and therefore I must be wrong

objectivity · 30/05/2008 19:56

I think the unhealthier need lies within those who don't do their ironing because they can't give up mumsnet. You addicts can't even blame a health problem.natch.

I'm okay, I'll walk away when it gets too much but I do feel there are two positives in joining this debate. Three if you include that it distracts me from thinkign about things I don't want to; I feel I need to stand up for the positive benefits I have felt; and, secondly, it is a little bit more 'good me' to argue.

dittany · 30/05/2008 19:54

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Thefearlessfreak · 30/05/2008 19:54

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Hassled · 30/05/2008 19:53

It's a tough one and agree that it's good we're discussing it. Ultimately I think I feel it would be callous in the extreme to just delete one of these threads; yes, we're (mostly) unqualified to help and yes, they get ghoulish and become drama-fests at times. But the OP is always someone who is desperate for help, and has probably already discounted the Samaritans, RL family/friends etc for whatever reason. Some help, however cack-handed and clumsy, has to be better than no help at all. It is like walking away from someone bleeding on the street because we're not first-aiders.

vermilion · 30/05/2008 19:52

Pulling threads immediately isn't going to be an option, though,I hope.
OK, I have read enough to understand that if simply a supportive response is good, then so be it.
I don't post on the threads because I don't want to say the wrong thing, I don't understand suicidal urges and would be wary of messing things up, but fair enough if there are those that do understand and if maybe it's not that important how expert we are.
What I mean to say is I opened the thread agreeing with the OP and now I see the other side, I think.

foxinsocks · 30/05/2008 19:52

no dittany THIS IS EXACTLY MY POINT

you cannot guarantee that it will always be supportive therefore it CANNOT be the place for a suicidal person - it is too much responsibility for an internet forum which is full of anonymous individuals

this is NOT the place, I'm sorry, but it isn't

dittany · 30/05/2008 19:51

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NotABanana · 30/05/2008 19:51

"while I am planning my next suicidal step. "

dittany · 30/05/2008 19:50

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DaddyJ · 30/05/2008 19:49

Thanks for the explanations, Fillyjonk & Janni.

Would it be fair to say that every single one of those posters
on objectivity's and susie's threads was being a Samaritan -
and a bloody good one at that?

In other words, the whole premise of this thread - namely that
us ordinary parents should outsource this kind of work to
trained professionals who know how to deal with suidicial people -
is simply and utterly wrong.

FAQ · 30/05/2008 19:48

Fox - had I not posted on MN then I wouldn't have found the courage to tell my RL friends what was happening, and in turn they wouldn't have got me the proper help I needed.

objectivity · 30/05/2008 19:48

And, I'm sorry but you can be really genuinely at the end of your will to go on and still feel a twat calling up the Samaritans. There are connotations there - as there are with, say, an organisation like Barnardo's that stop some people using that particular service.

Rationality doesn't completely fail even the suicidal. You don't stop being human when you are suicidal, and you don't stop being 'you' you just get deluded about some areas. So I can still feel a nobber about phoning the Samaritans while I am planning my next suicidal step.