what on earht are you all doing wih tis suiceide stuff

MP brings up a salient point. Because on the thread in question there were quite a few posts about reporting to MNHQ in order to track down the OP and send the cops round and how to suss out who the OP was IRL and the like.

Well, as you all know, this puts a lot of responsibility on MNHQ, particulary as many of these posts are late at night/early in the morning.

So perhaps a disclaimer that HQ can't be held responsible for trying to track down these OPs might be helpful?

tbh as I say a lot of the anti camp's arguements are used against the samaritans existing at all

it is this whole "get prfessional help" thing

well yes, dp

but I don't think many people are turning down professional help and posting on here

if people are posting on here, there is a reason why they are not phoning the samaritans and a reason why they are not talking to, say, a CPN.

Cutting this avenue of help off solves nothing imo

agree it would be suprisingly hard to say the wrong thing, there is a real wisdom of crowds thing on MN

I don't think it's that relevant JV.

It has never (as far as I know) been the case that someone has posted a thread saying they're going to kill themselves and then they do that day. It happened some time later.

I was just trying to make the point (rather clumsily), that it is inevitable on a board like this, where people discuss everything from the size of their fanjo lips to chicken soup recipes, that suicide is going to come up. I don't think you can say that people can't discuss it and I think it's dreadful to suggest that threads are deleted from the off.

The other board does have a list of sources of support for people in crisis and I think that it would be a good idea to have that on MN - just to be able to cut and paste it into a thread might be useful.

Thanks FAQ. That is interesting, about some posters knowing your history. You are right of course, if you are a well known and prolific poster that other mners are much more ready to step up and offer support.

What concerns me I suppose is the unkown newbies (or namechangers) who might get the more classic mn 'up front, tell it how it is, and how I see it' (aka "oh ffs") response or, more worryingly hardly any posts at all.

I got a "oh ffs" response about frozen sandwiches (ffs), but because I was having a really really really bad week/day, I flounced. silly twunt that I was.

Janni I agree with your last post. The night I took my OD two friends came over - the one who rushed round and barged through my front door after I sent a rather innocuous text to who somehow realised that something was wrong, and another friend who came and drove me up to the hosptal (and stayed with me until 3am in the morning).

My BF (the one who came round and found me throwing up with empty pill packets and a bottle of brandy next to me) is the "softly softly" type, the other friend some would probably describe as quite harsh. She was very blunt in the car when she drove me up to A&E. Both approaches helped me.

I'm not sure that MNHQ could realistically send the police around to every house when a suicide threat was posted. That wouldn't work, would it? People would end up posting suicide threats just as a cry for help, or would register under a false name to cause trouble. And MNHQ shouldn't be responsible to decide when a threat is 'real' or not. And what would constitute a threat?

There is no expectation when you post. You hope,but don't expect beyond one'snormal expectation when you post anything that people might have something to say.

Okay,so the nature of the post rather forces a response but there is no conscious consideration of that fact a the point of posting - whether that be a good bad or selfish thing.

Spicemonster - you have been on a forum where people have posted suicide threads and SOME (so, more than 1) have followed through and killed themselves?

Really? What forum would that be?

no I mean it's swings and roundabouts in terms of whether the risk of losing someone because they don't post (as their post will be deleted PDQ) is any greater a risk than risking losing them if they do post and someone says the "wrong" thing.

well I'm not a psychiatrist/psychologist so following my own advice, I'm in no position to say.

I hope mumsnet take professional advice and come to some sort of decision.

My personal opinion is that it's wrong to let those threads run. Whether mumsnet stops them and finds a way of contacting that person or comes up with a blanket policy, I don't know. Personally, I'd like to see some sort of mental health advice posted (whether it's numbers or whatever...) and then the thread pulled once contact has been made or whatever. Don't know.

I think some people are coming to the conclusion that I'm not very compassionate. I promise you, that could not be further from the truth, I just think this is the wrong place and the capacity for the 'wrong' advice being given out when we are dealing with people's LIVES, is just too great.

You would be surprised, Foxinsocks, how hard it is to say the wrong thing, unless you are a total psychopath and there aren't many of those on here. Someone saying 'go on then, top yourself', would IMMEDIATELY be jumped on by ten posters. A bit of kindness, sympathy, support, personal experience, suggestions of avenues to explore - MN is fantastic at that.

I know I wouldn't have found another way of dealing with it. Before the shit of the last 5 months even my closest RL friends had no idea what exactly what was going on in my life.

In fact when my BF went away for a few days in January she came back with fridge magnet for me as a "joke" (as a few days earlier I'd been "moaning" about H) with "When I married Mr Right I didn't realise his first name was Always".......in the few days she'd been away H and I had made the decision to split - she was genuinely shocked that things were as bad as that.

Now it's different, not brilliant, but better than it was, I'm more able to tell my RL friends how I'm feeling - instead of making everything a "joke".......

I am on another board and there have been people there who have posted suicide threads. Some have gone on to kill themselves, others haven't. I have never felt responsible for either saving or not saving someone's life - I would like to think that most posters are aware that the decision to end one's life (or not) is solely in the hands of the individual. There have never been any legal ramifications for that board when someone has chosen to end their life.

I view MN as a community. If you are a part of a community, I think it's perfectly valid to turn to it in times of crisis, whatever that crisis may be. If you don't want to help someone, walk away. As others have said, it is hugely obvious what the thread is about at the outset in all the cases I've read. Others may feel able to contribute and make a difference to the way the OP is feeling.

For many people, the net is a way of talking to people when there is no one they feel they can turn to in RL. And that means that people are going to talk about the uncomfortable stuff.

Interestingly, the other board I'm on does not let you namechange without prior permission of the mods. If you want to avoid trolls starting fake suicide threads, that might be a way to go. I've often thought the ability to namechange on MN is a bit of an achilles heel tbh.

Message withdrawn

Foxinsocks, I'm really struggling to see what the alternative you are proposing would do. The people who have been suicidal say it wouldn't work, the people who have been Samaritans say it wouldn't work. Lots of people are really not sure what the mechanism pulling the thread of a desperate person would do to help them. I'm not, though I do understand and support your logic of 'we might not be helping' etc..

"it's swings and roundabouts"

So, we save a couple here, lose a couple there, it all evens out in the end?

NO, no, no - no-one should have this responsibility laid at their door just for going on a bloody forum. It is so so wrong.

I agree about the breeding bit and the gawping bit and the breathless excitement bit, btw
but possibly the good outweighs the bad

I do understand what you are saying FAQ, I do. And it's not the guilt - it's the fact that this isn't necessarily the right place.

So maybe it worked for you. Maybe it doesn't work for the next person. Maybe you are stronger than you think. Maybe you shouldnt' have been able to turn to the internet. Maybe if mumsnet wasn't here, you might have found another, more proactive way of dealing with it. Maybe it's because people KNOW you and can spot you and had already wanted to be friends with you.

I can see why and how mumsnet CAN work in this situation but it doesn't ALWAYS work like this and these threads DO have a tendency to breed (sorry if that offends dittany, but they do) and it's incredibly unhealthy.

Slubber - I don't honestly know if I would have or not. Talking "now" then yes I think I may well have done.

However, at the time I'm not sure I would have done. Posting on MN I think I knew that at least some people would have an idea of my "history" and what had been happening in my life recently - (as I can't keep my gob shut - even on MN ) and so I wouldn't have had to explain that as those events had a direct impact on how I was feeling at the time IYKWIM.

I'm not disagreeing with you on that fox
but we draw different conclusions from it

I am not comfortable with these threads, partly for reasons I have stated
but I don't think referring and deleting is answer, also for reasons I have stated

it's people's lives Franny. Of course I know divorce is a serious business as are health problems and allergies and everything.

But we are talking about mothers here KILLING themselves. Taking their own life. I think that is about as serious as it gets.

FIS - you're not reading my posts properly.

I turned to MN first as I felt I had no-where else to turn. Because I turned to MN I was able to tell RL friends what was happening, in turn they got me to the GP. 2 weeks after that I took an OD, it was my RL friends I turned to (via text) when I suddenly had that small % of doubt which objectivity mentions above. I wouldn't had done that had I not used MN in the weeks leading up to it.

After I came out of hospital I continued to use MN, mostly late at night when I felt unable to call my friends to talk to them (I know most of my RL friends sleep much earlier than I do and I couldn't bear the thought of waking them up for me - I wasn't worth that).

After I'd had my first appointment with the CMHT which a MN'er (who has become a very close friend in the last 2 months) came to with me and she told me, in front of the social worker that I could call at any time of day or night I started to feel a little stronger and had more belief in the fact that my RL friends were (and still are) there for me.

However, having said that I'm still extremely concious that they all have their own lifes and own problems to deal with, if I call them then they feel obliged to talk to me.

If I post online then I know (as I often do it myself) that people responding to my thread have the option simply to close the thread and ignore.

And WRT "if you feel that you are still here because of posts you recieved here, you must be able to see what a horrific situation could occur if the right posts aren't forthcomng?"

Yes and no. I would feel terrible if knew someone on MN was suffering from depression but was unable to post (as their only outlet) to say they were feeling suicidal/considering self harm and we later found out that they'd committed suicide or harmed themself. I think it's swings and roundabouts.

Do we want to feel guilty that perhaps the "wrong" thing was said and that the OP still followed through

or

Do we want to feel guilty that someone killed themself because they knew that "couldn't" post on here?

well if we bar them or at least cut them off very quickly, then maybe people will be discouraged from posting them in the first place

it's too dangerous filly (I think). It's too much to expect that everyone will post the right thing or say the right words.

divorce is hardly a walk in the park fox
they're both serious businesses
I don't think you can ban certain topics on the grounds that we might get it wrong