what on earht are you all doing wih tis suiceide stuff

Marina that is true about people's reactions to threads - but then where do you draw the line? I have seen many threads on MN in the couple of years I've posted that have upset/disturbed me/brought back memories I'd rather I not remember. On a wide variety of topics and in the days before the "hide thread" option as long as those threads were in active convo's they were there for me to see and cause reactions with me....

Berolina - I do understand what your DH means and were I still employed as a mental health nurse I would probably say the same. Trained professionals like to think they are the first ones people turn to in a crisis.

What we have heard from those who've used MN when feeling desperate, however, is that this is the first and possibly only place they feel comfortable to come and post their cry for help. From what I have read, the advice and support offered is generally very good.

Oh fine, keep regaling us with such gems as:
"this cannot be the place where people turn for that sort of help", "it is not our job or role to deal with suicidal people" and "sectioning could be your saviour".

err so you have to be suicidal to have an opinion on this? well that's not the way it works I'm afraid

I am posting a lot because I am interested in this thread and I am ALLOWED to have an opinion, just as you are allowed to have one yourself. I wouldn't attack you personally for yours though.

People do not have to have been suicidal to be all too aware of the effects of suicidal feelings though, Thinkstoomuch

What berolina says is important and specific about people's reactions to threads. You could argue that MNHQ's "duty of care" extends to all posters, indeed anyone reading. Nothing on MN is ever just about OPs and thread contributors.
I don't know what the solution is tbh. I think this site works so well as a support mechanism for people on all levels that it is hard for any of us to see where a line can and should be drawn in cases of extreme fear and distress.
I was saddened to read that the Samaritans only have the resources to answer an e-mail within 24 hours. I could not agree more with pruners that more should be spent on counselling and support services for people living with mental illness.
IMO ideally the Samaritans should be able to offer closed chat online to people who cannot pick up the phone or even speak. So that they get the listening responsiveness and love that is MN at its best....but not spooled out on the web with the risk of random trolling or distressing another vulnerable person.

FIS, my post means you have come out with such a lot of ill-informed rubbish on this thread and it is crystal clear that you have never been near suicidal in your life so I'm not sure why you're posting so much.

Having used this site for over a year now, this is where I turn if the world seem tough. Should I ever get to the point of wanting to end it all, I reckon I would post here. I dont think getting a slap on my fingers from HQ would help a suicidal person in the slightest. He/SHe would possibly never post again and people would wonder what happpened to her/him.

It would be like Netmums sensorship.

I don't know about having a choice, tbh. If I am just off to bed and someone posts a 'is anyone around? I can't go on' message, it does not sit easily with me to leave them to it - I am involved as soon as I read that title. I have had OCD, which often revolves around guilt and fear of inaction, and that sort of situation has the potential to play havoc with my thought patterns.

Well, I've had depression and still think MNHQ needs to do something to make sure no one gets held responsible if someone does in fact harm themselves.

Or at least try to word a disclaimer that it's not HQ's responsibility to track down the OP in the middle of the night and call the police or that.

I asked dh - a psychologist by training - about this. He was unequivocally for closing the thread and, if feasible, tracing the poster 'behind the scenes'. He said that the potential repercussions for both people who get involved trying to help and other people lurking (for example) who might also be on the brink are too huge. I have a lot of sympathy for that viewpoint, but also for the arguments of those who are saying the opposite - FIS is right that MN is not really the appropriate place in these kinds of situations - but people will undoutedly turn to MN in these situations, and that then does have to be responded to. MN is great at support, but this sort of situation, in my feeling, does cross a line - but I am not sure 'refer and delete' is always the best option or useful to have as a blanket policy.

I think that Pruni, further down, made the most salient point of all. Plus a lot needs to be done (in society in general, I mean) to remove stigma and make mental health/depression self-awareness as normal as self-awareness around physical health.

how do you know I haven't?

what on earth is your post supposed to mean?

Thinkstoomuch, that is extremely rude. You don't have to have suffered from depression to have an opinion on this issue.

And if no one were allowed to start an 'attention seeking thread', MN would pretty soon expire...

FIS, I'm glad you've not had to deal with depression yourself but you just don't really sound like you know what you're talking about and you're posting a lot.

oh I don't care about me. I NEVER post on those threads because I am perfectly aware that I am not the right person to deal with them.

MN is as known for its outrageousness as its appropriateness.

I would imagine that most people who post in desperation on here are already used to MN, feel comfortable here and use it as a sounding board because they trust the good sense they will receive.

There truly is a collective wisdom here which comes to the fore in moments of crisis.

But Foxinsocks, you have a CHOICE. YOU dont have to deal with it if you dont have to.

err no I've been around for years actually

don't be so fucking rude - you can go fuck yourself if you can't bear the fact that other posters can have an opinion.

and there have been LOADS of these threads recently

it's not a case of switching off, it's a case of whether we want to encourage these sort of attention seeking threads to exist and I think NO. It's whether people on here SHOULD be dealing with suicidal people. Whether they are going to say the right things. Whether they ar egoing to become self fulfilling. I am perfectly entitled to feel that way I'm afraid, whether you like it or not.

But why is it a mumsnet problem any more than domestic violence, miscarriage, bereavement, serious illness is?

FIS are you new to the internet or something? ANY site which gets any kind of feeling of 'community' will have the occasional palaver like this, and people just have to deal with it either by participating, not participating, or leaving the site altogether if that's how they feel. Are you one of the people who whines that threads which mention sex in detail are inappropriate? Do you think that people shouldn't be allowed to discuss politics on a site that's about 'parenting'?
The bottom line really is, if you don't like a particular thread --go fuck yourself don't look at it. It's not your problem. Switch off your computer and go and do something else.

I don't think it should be mumsnet's problem though madamez, should it? As I said, it's a call for mumsnet HQ.

this isn't only about being uncomfortable, it's about being appropriate

I am quite shocked at this thread to be honest.

There are always going to be threads that some people are going to be uncomfortable with for various reasons, through own past experiences or other, or because the topic is one they fear, or they just dont think they can contribute.

Shouldnt it simply be "If you dont like the thread, ignore it" ?
Why does this not apply now?

I can name many different type of threads that make me uncomfortable, but it helps some to post on them, and they do receive support. Should we pull the plug on that because it makes some posters uncomfortable? The mere thought is in my opinion ridiculous.

Mumsnet self moderates. So, lets self moderate on this too and simply say, "ignore it if you dont want to read it" As with anything else. NObody compels you to read anything.

I remember a few months back a poster was buuuuued off the site for posting that people should stop posting about their problems because it made her uncomfortable. Isnt this the same thing?

I think what everyone has to accept is that you/we are not actually responsible for another person's suicide/refraining from suicide whether we know them online or in real life. You cannot prevent a person who is utterly determined to die (and in some ways, maybe you shouldn't, maybe it's not up to anyone else). Yes, sometimes the right kind words (or even unkind words) or actions make a difference, sometimes they don't. But there is a limit to how much anyone is responsible for anyone else and can control their behaviour: you can only really control your own behaviour.
Don't forget that sometimes people tell their friends or relatives that they are suicidal, and sometimes the friends or relatives treat the behaviour as attention-seeking, or get angry, or do something that, while not meant maliciously, is the wrong thing at the wrong time. If you find the suicide threads upset you, stay off them: if you find other people's responses ghoulish or distasteful, post your own helpful response and stay off, remember that (with the exception of posters who know each other in RL and might have to pile in) it's not really your problem and you can back off and walk away.

And then Califrau also pointed out that some posters will come on here and then not get the professional help they need.

That has happened, and indeed some posters who have started these types of threads have said they are still going to take steps to get that help, but they haven't yet.

Well, that's not good, either, because it's like people who stop taking antibiotics or medications when tehy start to feel better.