what on earht are you all doing wih tis suiceide stuff

SPS, I hope you have someone you can talk to in RL about this. You must be feeling pretty drained yourself

I'm witl LL on this. I agree with Cod that RL support is needed, but also don't understand why support can't be given on here as well.

I think that a lot of responses on here are of the "well I'm alright Jack" type and that those posters seem to be lacking in compassion for the plight of those whose life isn't as happy as theirs. As has been said before, if you are so wrapped up in your own personal little bubble that all that concerns you is handbags and what mums are wearing in the playground, then lucky you.....you don't have to take part in any thread that makes you uncomfortable or brings it home to you that your perfect little bubble isn't reality for a lot of people.

however, there are plenty women and men on here who have had a hard time of things, myself included, and thanks to the support they have had, both in RL and online has gelped them through their crisis given them the compassion to try and help others who they see to be in a similar situation. Posters who are emotionally vulnerable might not be here at all if the outlet of posting their feelings was taking away from them.

And where does one draw the line? Remove those threads, and you need to take away the drinker's thread, the MC threads, all the health and breavement threads where people come for support. What would that then make Mumsnet...a fluffy superficial website full of vacant threads about meaningless nonsense and witty ascerbic observations? The emotional threads have their place on this forum and whether we like them or not, or are prepared to say some comforting words or ignore them, they and all the other stuff are part of what makes Mumsnet what it is.

I for one wouldn't change that.

"when interviewed to become a samaritan you are asked if you have ever experienced anything traumatic. If you have, you wont get the "job"."

that's not true
it would be true if the 'traumatic' event was still affecting you in your everyday life. Most Samaritans will have had hard times in their life just like anyone else.

Message withdrawn

Good post Effie.

I've been thinking about this thread over night.

DaddyJ I agree with your post

We are dealing with people who are on the verge of ending it all,
all you have to do is to show compassion, listen, listen some more,
show them that someone cares, show some humanity.

This thread has changed my mind on my initial stance that these threads should be deleted.

They obviously offer much needed support, and the invaluable "listening ear" that posters at their lowest ebb are seeking. If the outcome of these threads are that that posters do not open the bottle of pills, or the next day they go and seek RL help then that is fantastic. The threads should stay, no question.

I do still have nagging fears that

MN is seen as an 'as good as' or ever better alternative to RL help.
There are consequences for the OP.
There are consquences for those who choose to involve themselves.
There are potential consequences for MN,

particularly if one of these threads were to end tragically.

Can I repeat that I do not think that these threads should be deleted. I'm just thinking about ways that when these threads appear that there is a mn policy to help (both the OP and other posters).

Thanks for reminding me of that, sorry I probably took that comment unnecessarily personally- still feeling a little weary from the latest incident

As for real life support- yes of course that's paramount.

But do you honestly think that if these people found it that easy to ask for/access that support thast they would have done?

We can advise them, support them to make the right choices, and equip them with the information and resources. Unfortunately though that has to be their decision.

We CAN however, call the Police if we consider them to be a danger to themselves or to others. Social Services are also another key contact if we feel that their children are within their care, and that they are at risk or harm or neglect.

(Assuming of course that we have their address)but I would suggest that the friend's of anyone they consider vulnerable should have their address anyway to be on the safe side.

I suppose that being one of the posters involved in supporting a few people over the past 6 months I should respond to this.

I kind of see it as supporting a friend to be honest,and I can tell you now I certainly haven't "vicariously enjoyed it" - that comment pissed me off to be honest. It has to be one of the most stressful things one can have to deal with and on the last occasion left me with a pounding headache, a huge phonebill and quite frankly feeling rather tearful and low. So no- if you have genuine concern for someone who you consider a friend- Online or in real life, it's certainly not fun.

In each of the cases I have been involved in I've ended up calling the Police- so if you take that on board I think you'll find that online cries for help do inevitably result in the flurry of "Quick....who knows XXXX in RL have they got her address" which is how I have been contacted on a number of occasions.

I don't see why any of you would want such a thread pulled. In the cases of a couple of indivuals it could literally be like having their only lifeline pulled away. I can tell you now that in at least one of the recent cases- I honestly don't think that person would be here today had that have happened.

I certainly would not want that on my conscience. Would you?

blimey, that was a long thread.

I think there is a consensus that it CAN be helpful for people thinking about uicide to post, and that most would not like to see the thread pulled regardless.

BUT I think many of you are missing an important point that has been made: what about the people who post support? Because if you are working for the Samaritans you get (some) training and more importantly there is support for the aftermath. We don't have that here. The possible effects on other posters are very real and shouldn't be discounted.

To take a different area, if you train with St John on first aid training they advise you to always talk things through with someone after dealing with an incident. And there is a helpline number. Because dealing with trauma (physical or mental) is disturbing and distressing.

So what to do?

-Have the debate (there is a reason this is such a long thread, these are very real concerns)
-DON'T stop people talking
-but DO have more advise/info for members of the site on how to deal with these situations. Perhaps a live chat with an expert in this area? Or a gentle reminder to people on safe/appropriate behaviour?

i think sophable is right and i think in the end theres no answer people just getr tired

but sophable, if you know just a little of the story of these 'emotional vampires', would you say that? I personally think that's very harsh...

fine line.

as a mental health professional i would never give someone suicidal on here any advice other than to contact RL help. anything else would be irresponsible.

equally on a human to human level it is difficult to turn away from someone in such need.

HOWEVER there is, imo a fuck of a lot of emotional vampirism on these threads. loads.

I haven't read the whole thread, apologies...
But, what do you want people to do when people post and they're obviously in a bad way. If they haven't contacted the samaritans, what are you going to do, force them???
I know if I were posting in a bad way, I'd appreciate a comforting word or just knowing that someone was there.
TBH, shame on alot of you

Good Post Wilfsell, so that is what this is, a debriefing? Makes sense.

crazymofo, it works both ways: if we're open and human and responsible enough to be open to people who want to discuss the difficult stuff that happened this week, then we're also open and human and responsible enough to take the consequences. We are neither the saviours of, or responsible for those people. I regret that they might not come here but that is their choice. We are a website.

I still think some good can come of trying to support these people but we can only do this by talking about what is best and what is undesirable. If vulnerable people choose to read that and decide it's not for them, so be it - I can't influence that either way. I think if we are to do this, then we have to learn to be compassionate at a distance. And debriefing or talking to an experienced person/group - just like this - is an important bit of dealing with trauma, which is undoubtedly what this was this week.

agree pd

still trying to catch up with this thread but i n response to daddyj's comment about humanity, that's the long and short of it to me. i empathise with anyone who feels utterly lost and hopeless and if i feel there is some way i can reach out to them and let them know it passes then i will. to someone at rock bottom this is all that matters to get through that moment. not psychologists and psychiatrists and assessments and diagnoses, just a real human contact. and to me that's where mn beats a&e or samaritans hands down because it's many people, who each have a little insight into part of that feeling - the chances are that someone will say the right thing, to give the op something to hold onto. it widens your options instead of narrowing them to whoever-happens-to-be-on-duty-at-the-time, who is just as likely to miss the mark.

i guess the retort will be that it also increases the chances of someone saying the wrong thing, but i'm not sure that's how it works - that one wrong comment will drive you over the edge. i think we have an inbuilt drive to survive and if we have a shred of hope left to cling to we'll keep going, and mn increases exponentially the chances of someone finding that hope. imvho.

I think this thread is now going to deter people from expressing their deppressive feelings and reaching out for help.

Well done

FIS: on balance I think that it's better for people to be able to post their suicide threads and have them responded to here, than for them to be shut down. Because the benefits (help for the suicidal OP, help for the OP even if he/she is unhappy and attention-seeking rather than actively suicidal, possible reassurance for other unhappy lurkers/posters) far outweigh the bad possibilities (suicidal OP manages to kill self, emotionally vulnerable other people get upset, the easily offended get, well, offended.)
People can't always fix or help other people no matter what, but in general and in pro-social, anthropological terms, it's better to try than not to try. If you were at a party and someone decided to go bananas and lock themselves in the loo with a sharp knife, would you be saying, ooh, call the professionals, we can't do anything or would you be trying to help no matter how clumsily.

damn, now i crave smelling JP Gaultier Classique.

WHY?

my ex boyfriend bought me that because he smelled it on some bird in an airport, ffs.